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Claiming compensation from AC under APPR (Air Passenger Protection Regulations)

Claiming compensation from AC under APPR (Air Passenger Protection Regulations)

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Old Aug 24, 22, 6:47 am   -   Wikipost
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AC Delayed/Cancelled Flight Compensation Threads

There are several threads on compensation for delayed/cancelled flights operated by AC.

If your question is about APPR (Canadian regulations), this is the correct thread.

For information regarding which regime(s) you're eligible for compensation under, or which would be more favourable, please see: Air Canada Compensation For Delayed/Cancelled Flights

For information on claiming compensation under EU rules (a.k.a. EU261 or EC261), please see: Claiming EU261 Compensation from AC
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Old Aug 21, 22, 1:22 am
  #226  
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Originally Posted by tracon View Post
What kind of work in YYZ?
Runway construction?
Was there one less runway than usual?
ATC in Canada can't order airlines to cancel flights.
It can issue delays so that cancelling may have been the most viable solution.
AC chose to cancel YQB-YYZ over a different flight or accepting a lengthy delay.
I really have no idea. I was was told that they were working on runways. Anna Anderson was told that she was the Grand Duchess Anastasia. Thus you may well be right but I can hardly write that Air Canada lied to me and claim compensation, can I?
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Old Aug 21, 22, 8:08 am
  #227  
 
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Wife had a 4ish hour delay from YYZ-LGA. At the airport for the 8am departure she was told it was due to aircraft being towed, then a gate change, then they had to offload fuel. We filed the claim a few days later and she shockingly got an email that she will receive $400 via e transfer in the next few days. This was the first reply we received so we did not have to push them or argue.

Maybe all the negative media coverage is helping?
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Old Aug 21, 22, 4:20 pm
  #228  
 
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I printed out and sent in a $3,000 USD EU261 claim on Athens>Toronto>Atlanta with cancellation emails, hotel bills, Uber receipts, etc. as we arrived in Atlanta on Monday night instead of Friday night due to THREE "Covid 19 crew cancellations" in Toronto and Montreal. It was sent with tracking and received on August 4 in Montreal at HQ for AC. Any idea when (if) I will receive a reply?
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Old Aug 21, 22, 6:28 pm
  #229  
 
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Originally Posted by golferjoe View Post
I printed out and sent in a $3,000 USD EU261 claim on Athens>Toronto>Atlanta with cancellation emails, hotel bills, Uber receipts, etc. as we arrived in Atlanta on Monday night instead of Friday night due to THREE "Covid 19 crew cancellations" in Toronto and Montreal. It was sent with tracking and received on August 4 in Montreal at HQ for AC. Any idea when (if) I will receive a reply?
Is there any reason you didn't submit your claim online, or use the AC Customer Relations address located in Calgary? I'd expect ~30 days or so, assuming paper submissions aren't expedited over online submissions.

Air Canada - Customer Relations
P.O. Box 64239
RPO Thorncliffe
Calgary, AB, Canada
T2K 6J7
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Old Aug 21, 22, 6:33 pm
  #230  
 
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Originally Posted by PUCCI GALORE View Post
I really have no idea. I was was told that they were working on runways. Anna Anderson was told that she was the Grand Duchess Anastasia. Thus you may well be right but I can hardly write that Air Canada lied to me and claim compensation, can I?
If it's any consolation, there is in fact runway construction taking place this summer at YYZ, and runways have been / are closed for that. If you had a strong belief / evidence the delay was misclassified, you're able to pursue your claim with the CTA or in court. At this point it's pretty hard to easily find public information about the reason for the cancellation to say either way.

If you haven't already submitted a claim to AC, you could write in to customer relations and see what they have to say. (And maybe provide you with a goodwill gesture)
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Old Aug 22, 22, 3:14 am
  #231  
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Originally Posted by zappy312 View Post
If it's any consolation, there is in fact runway construction taking place this summer at YYZ, and runways have been / are closed for that. If you had a strong belief / evidence the delay was misclassified, you're able to pursue your claim with the CTA or in court. At this point it's pretty hard to easily find public information about the reason for the cancellation to say either way.

If you haven't already submitted a claim to AC, you could write in to customer relations and see what they have to say. (And maybe provide you with a goodwill gesture)
I do think that the story was true. However, they only told us about it a few hours before we were dur to travel.

I like you idea however. What harm can it do? If they say On Your Bike, Pucci Galore Ive lost nothing except a few minutes typing. Ill let you know.
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Old Aug 22, 22, 4:15 am
  #232  
 
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Here's my experience:We are in receipt of your claim under the Air Passenger Protection Regulations for flight 1902 on 2022-07-04. We are sorry for the delay you experienced at arrival to your final destination.

In this instance, the compensation you are requesting does not apply because the delay was caused by a safety-related issue.

In think AC likes to put a spin on almost everything, so that compensation is minimized. Rant over
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Old Aug 22, 22, 5:00 am
  #233  
 
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Originally Posted by flying chef View Post
Here's my experience:We are in receipt of your claim under the Air Passenger Protection Regulations for flight 1902 on 2022-07-04. We are sorry for the delay you experienced at arrival to your final destination.

In this instance, the compensation you are requesting does not apply because the delay was caused by a safety-related issue.

In think AC likes to put a spin on almost everything, so that compensation is minimized. Rant over
My personal favorite time was when AC denied me compensation due to ATC delays when I am an ATC that works the same airspace that had ATC delays and I texted my buddy who was the shift manager at the time who said there were no restrictions or delays in effect for the last few days.
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Old Aug 22, 22, 7:47 am
  #234  
 
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Originally Posted by poshul View Post
I purchased tickets on Air Canada with the knowledge that I they had a legal duty of care and with the expectation that they would not violate the law. Trust is a key part of a rules based society. I trusted that if Air Canada thought that they would be unable to comply with the law that they would cancel flights down to a level that they could maintain (see Lufthansa's shedding of tons of flights this summer as a good example of how to handle this). Air Canada instead looked at their pocketbooks, and decided that it would cost them less to break the law than to cancel flights. I intend to do everything in my power to make them reevaluate that assessment.
As an update, about a week after I started the collections process against Air Canada I received notification that they suddenly were willing to pay. No apology, no itemized receipt, but it does look like they paid interest on the amount that I was owed for all the time they refused to comply with the law. I'm glad to have this over with (though I would really have loved reenacting this episode but with a 777.
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Old Aug 22, 22, 9:02 am
  #235  
 
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Originally Posted by PUCCI GALORE View Post
I do think that the story was true. However, they only told us about it a few hours before we were dur to travel.

I like you idea however. What harm can it do? If they say On Your Bike, Pucci Galore Ive lost nothing except a few minutes typing. Ill let you know.
I recall responding to your question in a different thread around the time this happened to you.

Originally Posted by ChrisA330 View Post
There was a ground delay program in effect at YYZ yesterday due to the ongoing runway construction which limited traffic and as such the airlines had to thin their schedules.
I had obtained this information from the Nav Canada OIS, which is publicly available. However, as you mentioned the worst they can do is say no...but also keep in mind that as these restrictions aren't done by the airline themselves, there may not be the opportunity to give any advance notice. Good luck!
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Old Aug 23, 22, 1:47 pm
  #236  
 
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Quick question regarding APPR compensation. My wife was on AC846 YVR to FRA. Her flight was 7 hours delayed. From what I understand EC No 261/2004 is not applicable because AC is not an airline based in the EU/EEA. However, APPR should potentially be applicable. The issue is that AC claims the following: "In this instance, the compensation you are requesting does not apply because the disruption was caused by a safety-related issue. This flight is delayed due to additional time needed to substitute the aircraft."

My question: Is this a legitimate argument that holds up in court or has been challenged in court? I know that EU carriers cannot use this excuse because safety issues and delays needed to substitute the aircraft would still be considered within the airlines control. There have been several court cases in the EU that confirmed this interpretation. Is there something similar in Canada?
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Old Aug 23, 22, 1:54 pm
  #237  
 
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Originally Posted by totti View Post
Quick question regarding APPR compensation. My wife was on AC846 YVR to FRA. Her flight was 7 hours delayed. From what I understand EC No 261/2004 is not applicable because AC is not an airline based in the EU/EEA. However, APPR should potentially be applicable.
Partially correct. EU261 applies to all airlines irrespective of nationality if the trip starts at an EU port (i.e. CDG, FRA). EU261 also applies for flights to or through the EU when the operating carrier is EU based. In your case since the trip originated in Vancouver and the airline is not EU based, then EU 261 wouldn't apply, although APPR certainly could apply.

Originally Posted by totti View Post
The issue is that AC claims the following: "In this instance, the compensation you are requesting does not apply because the disruption was caused by a safety-related issue. This flight is delayed due to additional time needed to substitute the aircraft."

My question: Is this a legitimate argument that holds up in court or has been challenged in court? I know that EU carriers cannot use this excuse because safety issues and delays needed to substitute the aircraft would still be considered within the airlines control. There have been several court cases in the EU that confirmed this interpretation. Is there something similar in Canada?
It is unclear what excuses AC will be permitted to make use of. Frankly if every airline could use safety as an excuse we would all still be stuck at home. What you can do is appeal their decision to the Canadian Transportation agency or alternatively fight them at small claims court. It's only until enough Canadians kick the tyres as it were of the CTA and small claims court that the enforcement of APPR becomes apparent to travellers. Even in the EU, when 261 was originally introduced airlines would always make the safety excuse and it wasn't until people challenged that nonsense that things became crystal clear as to what's an acceptable excuse.

-RooFlyer88
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Old Aug 23, 22, 2:48 pm
  #238  
 
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Originally Posted by kangarooflyer88 View Post
Partially correct. EU261 applies to all airlines irrespective of nationality if the trip starts at an EU port (i.e. CDG, FRA). EU261 also applies for flights to or through the EU when the operating carrier is EU based. In your case since the trip originated in Vancouver and the airline is not EU based, then EU 261 wouldn't apply, although APPR certainly could apply.
Very well aware of this but thank you for pointing it out again. It is actually a regular AC excuse: We are not an EU carrier and don't have to pay. I have successfully sued AC on that in the past thanks to flightright.com
Originally Posted by kangarooflyer88 View Post
It is unclear what excuses AC will be permitted to make use of. Frankly if every airline could use safety as an excuse we would all still be stuck at home. What you can do is appeal their decision to the Canadian Transportation agency or alternatively fight them at small claims court. It's only until enough Canadians kick the tyres as it were of the CTA and small claims court that the enforcement of APPR becomes apparent to travellers. Even in the EU, when 261 was originally introduced airlines would always make the safety excuse and it wasn't until people challenged that nonsense that things became crystal clear as to what's an acceptable excuse.

-RooFlyer88
Thank you for the advice. I will consider it. I will first respond to AC and see what they say but from experience they don't care.
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Old Aug 23, 22, 8:34 pm
  #239  
 
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After several weeks of waiting after filing my APPR claim for the cancelled connecting flight I had from YSJ from YYZ I finally received a response from AC:

After investigation, we have determined that your flight was delayed/cancelled due to crew constraints resulting from the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on our operations. For example, crew may be required to isolate if they have COVID-like symptoms, have a positive COVID-19 test, or have been in contact with someone who tested positive to COVID-19.

As a result, since your Air Canada flight was delayed/cancelled due to crew constraints resulting from the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on our operations, the compensation you are requesting does not apply because the delay/cancellation was caused by a safety-related issue.

We understand that you may be disappointed and are sorry that we have not been able to get you to your destination at the arrival time originally planned.

As a goodwill gesture, we’d like to offer you a one-time discount of $300 off the base fare on your next booking at aircanada.com. Below, we have provided your eCoupon number and instructions on how to receive your discount. If you incurred expenses due to the disruption of your flight, please reply to this email and attach the receipts for our review and consideration.
Checking the CTA website, crew scheduling issues arising from someone catching a cold is not considered an exceptional circumstance. I took this trip on June 27, 2022, more than two years after the pandemic has started. This is not a novel pandemic, the airlines had ample time to plan for any impact this pandemic would've had on operations and if they were worried they'd be short staffed, they could've simply sold fewer tickets and added less flights to their schedule.

For those in the galley saying, well a $300 AC voucher is nice, I'd like to point out the following things:
  • The $300 voucher is less than the $1000 I am entitled to as my delay exceeded 9 hours
  • The $300 voucher is not cash but rather something that can only be used on a limited set of Air Canada products, namely the base fare of one of their flights. It does not cover such things as flight passes or taxes and fees on flights
  • I have no intention of flying AC so having a voucher for an airline I'll never fly doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Even if I do have to travel domestically in Canada, I'll take the train or fly Delta, United or American
-RooFlyer88
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Old Aug 24, 22, 12:57 am
  #240  
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Originally Posted by kangarooflyer88 View Post
The $300 voucher is not cash but rather something that can only be used on a limited set of Air Canada products, namely the base fare of one of their flights. It does not cover such things as flight passes or taxes and fees on flights
That's wrong. It can be used to cover base fare, taxes, fees on flights, and certain ancillary services, e.g. seat selection, as detailed on this page.
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