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Claiming compensation from AC under APPR (Air Passenger Protection Regulations)

Claiming compensation from AC under APPR (Air Passenger Protection Regulations)

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Old Aug 24, 22, 6:47 am   -   Wikipost
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AC Delayed/Cancelled Flight Compensation Threads

There are several threads on compensation for delayed/cancelled flights operated by AC.

If your question is about APPR (Canadian regulations), this is the correct thread.

For information regarding which regime(s) you're eligible for compensation under, or which would be more favourable, please see: Air Canada Compensation For Delayed/Cancelled Flights

For information on claiming compensation under EU rules (a.k.a. EU261 or EC261), please see: Claiming EU261 Compensation from AC
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Old Jul 24, 22, 5:00 pm
  #181  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: YYC-PRG/VIE
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Originally Posted by pdbe25 View Post
What options for compensation are available to me?

Anyone in a similar situation?
Just file for EC261 compensation with the Ireland aviation regulator. You'll get a couple hundred dollars less than you *should* be due under the toothless Canadian regulations, but they should make short work of it. Don't forget to include duty of care receipts assuming you had to pay for an unplanned hotel stay in YYZ.

Cancellations & Delays - Flight Rights

Last edited by YYCCL3; Jul 24, 22 at 5:07 pm Reason: adding link
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Old Jul 25, 22, 10:58 am
  #182  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by pdbe25 View Post
AC801 on the first leg of my DUB-YYZ-CLT trip on the 09 July 2022 departed late and arrived in Toronto Airport 4+ hours late. The text notification said this was due to Airport Limitations.
I missed my connection in Toronto Airport due to the late arrival of AC801.
On 10 July 2022, my rebooked flight with Air Canada was cancelled due to pandemic-related factors beyond our control such as industry-wide labour shortages and government entry requirements
I eventually arrived on 11 July in CLT

My compensation claim to Air Canada for AC801 DUB to YYZ was rejected as follows.

We are in receipt of your claim under the Air Passenger Protection Regulations for flight 801 on 2022-07-09. We are sorry for the delay you experienced at arrival to your final destination.
In this instance, the compensation you are requesting does not apply because the delay was caused by a safety-related issue.
We hope that we may have another opportunity to welcome you on board.


How does airport limitation become a safety issue two weeks later?

What options for compensation are available to me?

Anyone in a similar situation?

Well, at lease it was a very nicely worded response
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Old Jul 25, 22, 11:31 am
  #183  
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Originally Posted by pdbe25 View Post
AC801 on the first leg of my DUB-YYZ-CLT trip on the 09 July 2022 departed late and arrived in Toronto Airport 4+ hours late. The text notification said this was due to Airport Limitations.
I missed my connection in Toronto Airport due to the late arrival of AC801.
On 10 July 2022, my rebooked flight with Air Canada was cancelled due to pandemic-related factors beyond our control such as industry-wide labour shortages and government entry requirements
I eventually arrived on 11 July in CLT

My compensation claim to Air Canada for AC801 DUB to YYZ was rejected as follows.

We are in receipt of your claim under the Air Passenger Protection Regulations for flight 801 on 2022-07-09. We are sorry for the delay you experienced at arrival to your final destination.
In this instance, the compensation you are requesting does not apply because the delay was caused by a safety-related issue.
We hope that we may have another opportunity to welcome you on board.


How does airport limitation become a safety issue two weeks later?

What options for compensation are available to me?

Anyone in a similar situation?
I would write back asking them to explain what the "safety related issue" was specifically (unless you know what it might have been since you were there) - keep pushing and also file a DOT complaint since your final destination was in the USA, citing failure of the carrier to follow applicable laws and regulations pertaining to the compensation of customers adversely affected by operational delays. If that doesn't work, then go the EU route and take the lower compensation - either way AC will be dinged regardless.
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Old Jul 25, 22, 11:44 am
  #184  
 
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Originally Posted by poshul View Post
Yeah, their flagrant breach of their duty of care is thing that I am really pissed about. I'll get my cancellation compensation eventually, either through CTA or the collections agency here in Germany. But them not providing meal vouchers and a hotel, despite being required to do so, and having their CSRs baldly lie about it is infuriating. I've got travel insurance so I'll be made whole, but I can't forget the face of the woman next to me who apparently didn't have a credit card with her, and was told she had to sleep in the airport. I've tried contacting a couple of CA based law-firms trying to stir up interest in filing a class action suit, but have had no luck so far.
I was reading that Duty of Care statement and then thought of that other statement used often, the standard of care?

As the flying issue is well known and well-publicized with warnings and notices provided by almost all players from within and outside the travel industry, BUT we still choose to travel. Are we not now taking a known risk? If traveling on the highway and you hear on the radio of a car pile-up that is bad, you see this on your navigation system as well as on your phone (I know bad to do) and yet continue to travel through. Are you not now taking a risk. Perhaps that was not the best example as I quickly write this. I could have used an insurance example as they are great in avoiding paying claims also, lol

We know Covid is an excuse that is used for everything. I have Hiltons in the same city saying covid prevents an airport shuttle at one location, but they have an airport shuttle at another Hilton location. My favorite is the executive lounge is closed but the regular restaurant thirty feet away is open?

Are Airlines required to compensate when the known risks are well published during this unprecedented time? We have the Federal Government continuing to have unnecessary covid practices in place, only their special science and themselves feel is necessary while the rest of the industry does not, so is this the airline fault?
One can say we are paying more for flights, thus paying more for the known risks, thus the duty of care and standard of care is even more important now!

Anyways this was a long conversation between f/f i participated in this past weekend.

I will say again, on my delayed flights, Lufthansa looked after me well, what's to claim? Air Canada also looks after me, if I am late by a couple of hours is that time worth $$$$?. Just because CATSA is short staff or have very special agents working for them or if the airport is set up inefficiently because they have special people working there too, maybe related to the special agents at CATSA, is that the airlines fault?

Lets take a stress tab and relax : )
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Old Jul 25, 22, 12:12 pm
  #185  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Originally Posted by HerpaYvr View Post
I was reading that Duty of Care statement and then thought of that other statement used often, the standard of care?

As the flying issue is well known and well-publicized with warnings and notices provided by almost all players from within and outside the travel industry, BUT we still choose to travel. Are we not now taking a known risk? If traveling on the highway and you hear on the radio of a car pile-up that is bad, you see this on your navigation system as well as on your phone (I know bad to do) and yet continue to travel through. Are you not now taking a risk. Perhaps that was not the best example as I quickly write this. I could have used an insurance example as they are great in avoiding paying claims also, lol

We know Covid is an excuse that is used for everything. I have Hiltons in the same city saying covid prevents an airport shuttle at one location, but they have an airport shuttle at another Hilton location. My favorite is the executive lounge is closed but the regular restaurant thirty feet away is open?

Are Airlines required to compensate when the known risks are well published during this unprecedented time? We have the Federal Government continuing to have unnecessary covid practices in place, only their special science and themselves feel is necessary while the rest of the industry does not, so is this the airline fault?
One can say we are paying more for flights, thus paying more for the known risks, thus the duty of care and standard of care is even more important now!

Anyways this was a long conversation between f/f i participated in this past weekend.

I will say again, on my delayed flights, Lufthansa looked after me well, what's to claim? Air Canada also looks after me, if I am late by a couple of hours is that time worth $$$$?. Just because CATSA is short staff or have very special agents working for them or if the airport is set up inefficiently because they have special people working there too, maybe related to the special agents at CATSA, is that the airlines fault?

Lets take a stress tab and relax : )
I purchased tickets on Air Canada with the knowledge that I they had a legal duty of care and with the expectation that they would not violate the law. Trust is a key part of a rules based society. I trusted that if Air Canada thought that they would be unable to comply with the law that they would cancel flights down to a level that they could maintain (see Lufthansa's shedding of tons of flights this summer as a good example of how to handle this). Air Canada instead looked at their pocketbooks, and decided that it would cost them less to break the law than to cancel flights. I intend to do everything in my power to make them reevaluate that assessment.
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Old Jul 25, 22, 12:59 pm
  #186  
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Here's a better one:

I purchased a ticket to get me home on Saturday. Due to AC's plane breaking, or them not paying enough to attract employees, or trying to get aircraft utilization up too high, they could only get me home Sunday.

How is that me taking a risk? They have MCTs. Those MCTs are higher than typical. AC knows and sets the risk level. If they can't deliver on that, I deserve a hotel.

That being said, there is also a reason I use a credit card with trip delay insurance. I think AC is responsible (legally, morally, at fault, etc.), but that doesn't mean I'm going to assume it will be easy to deal with them.

And you could replace "AC" with any other airline you want, and my argument stands.
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Old Jul 25, 22, 1:05 pm
  #187  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
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From what I've seen with the CTA, even if the airlines are found to be liable for care (hotel + food), the CTA can only award actual costs. So the average passenger would need to pay for the hotel and food upfront, and then if AC refuses, drag it out with the potential for a decision that they get reimbursed for their costs. And if they slept in the airport, then no reimbursement or compensation for them.

Personally, I've just been insuring the matter. I'll let insurance battle it out, or pursue the airline if actual costs exceed the known coverage limits I have. And if there ends up being weather, AC (or any airline) isn't responsible (at least within NA), and I don't really desire paying $350 for a last minute hotel room.
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Old Jul 25, 22, 1:09 pm
  #188  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Originally Posted by pdbe25 View Post
AC801 on the first leg of my DUB-YYZ-CLT trip on the 09 July 2022 departed late and arrived in Toronto Airport 4+ hours late. The text notification said this was due to Airport Limitations.
I missed my connection in Toronto Airport due to the late arrival of AC801.
On 10 July 2022, my rebooked flight with Air Canada was cancelled due to pandemic-related factors beyond our control such as industry-wide labour shortages and government entry requirements
I eventually arrived on 11 July in CLT

My compensation claim to Air Canada for AC801 DUB to YYZ was rejected as follows.

We are in receipt of your claim under the Air Passenger Protection Regulations for flight 801 on 2022-07-09. We are sorry for the delay you experienced at arrival to your final destination.
In this instance, the compensation you are requesting does not apply because the delay was caused by a safety-related issue.
We hope that we may have another opportunity to welcome you on board.


How does airport limitation become a safety issue two weeks later?

What options for compensation are available to me?
If you want to pursue Air Canada under APPR compensation, you can either go through the CTA or file in small claims court. The CTA is the easier option IMO, but also slower. You'll open a clam with the CTA, it'll go through facilitation where a CTA employee contacts AC to confirm their position. Then it'll go to Mediation where you and AC will meet, in hopes of coming to a resolution. If it's unsuccessful or Air Canada refuses to mediate, it'll go to Adjudication where CTA agency members will review the case and issue a binding decision. AC tends to bring forward more information at Adjudication, but it can be insufficient to get them off the hook (and the CTA should consider the communications you received at the flight time).
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Old Jul 25, 22, 3:44 pm
  #189  
 
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Originally Posted by poshul View Post
I purchased tickets on Air Canada with the knowledge that I they had a legal duty of care and with the expectation that they would not violate the law. Trust is a key part of a rules based society. I trusted that if Air Canada thought that they would be unable to comply with the law that they would cancel flights down to a level that they could maintain (see Lufthansa's shedding of tons of flights this summer as a good example of how to handle this). Air Canada instead looked at their pocketbooks, and decided that it would cost them less to break the law than to cancel flights. I intend to do everything in my power to make them reevaluate that assessment.
Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
Here's a better one:

I purchased a ticket to get me home on Saturday. Due to AC's plane breaking, or them not paying enough to attract employees, or trying to get aircraft utilization up too high, they could only get me home Sunday.

Compensation seems so random and based on the "feelings" of the agents at that time?

How is that me taking a risk? They have MCTs. Those MCTs are higher than typical. AC knows and sets the risk level. If they can't deliver on that, I deserve a hotel.

That being said, there is also a reason I use a credit card with trip delay insurance. I think AC is responsible (legally, morally, at fault, etc.), but that doesn't mean I'm going to assume it will be easy to deal with them.

And you could replace "AC" with any other airline you want, and my argument stands.
Wow, I thought you would have been given a hotel and food vouchers for sure??

Seems as compensation is random based on the "feelings or attitude of the agent at the time" this is wrong!

Last edited by HerpaYvr; Jul 25, 22 at 3:48 pm Reason: made an error
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Old Jul 25, 22, 3:54 pm
  #190  
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Originally Posted by HerpaYvr View Post
Wow, I thought you would have been given a hotel and food vouchers for sure??

Seems as compensation is random based on the "feelings or attitude of the agent at the time" this is wrong!
I'm always taken care of. But not everyone is given the same treatment.

​​​​​​
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Old Jul 25, 22, 4:23 pm
  #191  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
I'm always taken care of. But not everyone is given the same treatment.

​​​​​​
But there are not very many in your position......you are an uber VIP!!!
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Old Jul 25, 22, 6:10 pm
  #192  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Ac800 2hrs delayed

Hi

We flew AC800 om July 21st, 4pax in business class.
Flight was 3 hours delayed from yyz and we missed our connection with SK to ARN, got rebooked and arrived 2 days later.

I followed the plane/equipment plan for this flight on flightradar and ac website from about 24 hours before.AC800 was originally scheduled to go with C-FIUL which came in from Amsterdam as AC827.
A few hours before sched departure AC800 was changed to go with C-FIVQ which came from Montreal as AC423.
Another few hours before departure AC800 was changed to fly with C-FIVR which came in EARLY from London as AC859.(still way to late to do a turnaround within schedueled departuee)

Both C-FIVQ and C-FIVR came into YYZ so late that a turnaround according to scheduele would be impossible.

Only C-FIUL which was originally set to fly AC800 had enough time to turnaroud within the scheduele.
when ac800 started to board C-FIUL left for Rome.

This was also confirmed by the captain onboard AC800 that said the delay was due to operational decisions of changing the aircraft close to departure.


To me this looks like a clear APPR claim.

Do anyone have access to see the official AC reason for the delay?
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Old Jul 25, 22, 6:28 pm
  #193  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Originally Posted by Lars Johansen View Post
Hi
Do anyone have access to see the official AC reason for the delay?
AC.com shows the reason as "This flight is delayed due to an operational issue from an earlier flight which is causing the aircraft that is scheduled to operate your flight to arrive late."

ExpertFlyer comments are no longer available for your flight.
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Old Jul 26, 22, 3:12 am
  #194  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Originally Posted by zappy312 View Post
From what I've seen with the CTA, even if the airlines are found to be liable for care (hotel + food), the CTA can only award actual costs. So the average passenger would need to pay for the hotel and food upfront, and then if AC refuses, drag it out with the potential for a decision that they get reimbursed for their costs. And if they slept in the airport, then no reimbursement or compensation for them.

Personally, I've just been insuring the matter. I'll let insurance battle it out, or pursue the airline if actual costs exceed the known coverage limits I have. And if there ends up being weather, AC (or any airline) isn't responsible (at least within NA), and I don't really desire paying $350 for a last minute hotel room.
Right, and I think fundamentally this is the reason that they behave the way they do. Worst case scenario they end up paying actual damages to all the folks who are stubborn enough to fight it out, best case they don't have to pay anything. This is fundamentally why punitive damages exist: to punish entities that make the decision to flaunt the law. Unfortunately the Montreal convention precludes punitive damages.
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Old Jul 27, 22, 8:24 pm
  #195  
 
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The Submit your claim link on aircanada website keeps going no where or being block by my antivirus is there a work around

thanks
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