canadiancow

That's an interesting case, and I'd be tempted to proceed down the APPR path.

VoodooYYC

I sent it in, and will advise on what they say and decide on next steps. I think it's an interesting case as well. Is damage caused by negligence a mechanical issue?

canadiancow

It's obviously a mechanical issue, the question is whether AC or the CTA think it's exempt.

VoodooYYC

Unsurprisingly, it took AC less than a day to come back and tell me to pound sand. Ineligible for compensation as it was a safety related issue.

Not surprised by the answer, will consider the option of filing with the CTA.

canadiancow

Keep us informed.

Unfortunately I think it's going to be challenging to argue that the cause of a malfunction is relevant.

ken_ll

My SD was flying YOW-YUL-YLW late August. This was the last flight of the day for her route. Incoming flight from YYZ was “late due to waiting for connecting passengers”. I knew her flight to YUL would be late resulting in a misconnect. That happened. She arrived in YLW the next day, well over 9 hours late. I filed for compensation and I received the $1,000. I fully expected to receive a BS reply. (I had paid for her flight with United points and upgraded her to business for $250, she got lay flat seats to YVR the next day.)

A second claim for DW resulted in a denied claim for a 4 hour delay but got a 15% off voucher. Her delay at Toronto was a baggage handling issue which to me is “controllable”. She had a misconnect in YYC and got to YLW late. I failed to keep screen shots and I did not pursue that one any further.

One has to keep on top of all the reasons why a flight is late and pursue legitimate claims.

YEGCM

AC cancelled flight and booked me out 24 hours later mid -trip after I completed my YEG segment.

“After investigation, we have determined that your flight was delayed/cancelled due to crew constraints resulting from the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on our operations. For example, crew may be required to isolate if they have COVID-like symptoms, have a positive COVID-19 test, or have been in contact with someone who tested positive to COVID-19.

As a result, since your Air Canada flight was delayed/cancelled due to crew constraints resulting from the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on our operations, the compensation you are requesting does not apply because the delay/cancellation was caused by a safety-related issue.”

Does this now fit in their parameters of not being on the hook for paying out compensation?

does anyone have any similar examples that have been paid or not paid.

thanks
YEGCM

Adam Smith

It's not entirely clear. Obviously it's unsafe to operate an aircraft without sufficient crew. The full definition from the regulations is "required for safety purposes means required by law in order to reduce risk to passenger safety and includes required by safety decisions made within the authority of the pilot of the aircraft or any decision made in accordance with a safety management system as defined in subsection 101.01(1) of the Canadian Aviation Regulations but does not include scheduled maintenance in compliance with legal requirements."

I would argue that it's AC's responsibility to staff its operations appropriately, but throughout the pandemic, AC has taken the position - across its operations, not just with regards to APPR compensation - that nothing at all is within its control and therefore it never owes anyone anything. I imagine that, until a regulator or court tells them otherwise, they'll stick to that position.

I've moved your post here since this thread contains a few different APPR perspectives.

canadiancow

I think even the European courts have ruled that compensation isn't owed if it's "due to COVID".

Personally I'd be tempted to give them a little slack on current staffing issues. Prior to December I think I knew 2 people who'd had COVID.

In the past 3 weeks, that number has jumped to about 20.

If even 10% of their crews are sick, there are going to be tons of cancellations.

zappy312

The CTA's decision from November probably lets AC tell you to kick rocks. While the CTA has said crew shortages may still be within the carrier's control based on contingency plans made, "[t]he Agency recognizes that extraordinary situations can impact a carrier’s reserve crew, such as an illness affecting a significant number of crew".

I'll let Gabor and the CTA battle this one out from the sidelines.

OfficeGlenn

Flew on AC8166 on April 27, 2022 from YYJ-YVR which was delayed a couple hours, causing me to misconnect in YVR and needing to overnight in Vancouver.

Was told that the reason for the delay was a mechanical issue. Here was Air Canada's response denying compensation, but ended up offering a $300.00 e-coupon, and suggested I also submit itemized receipts for hotel and meal expenses.

----

In this instance, the compensation you are requesting does not apply because the delay was caused by a safety-related issue. Specifically, Air Canada airplanes are maintained in accordance with the required maintenance program but not all malfunctions, such as this one, can be foreseen or prevented through regular maintenance. The technical fault for your flight was unexpected and all reasonable measures were taken to avoid the flight disruption.

In accordance with the Air Passenger Protection Regulations, compensation does not apply under these circumstances. Unexpected airplane malfunctions may compromise safety and flight disruptions caused by unexpected aircraft malfunctions would be within a carrier’s control, but required for safety.

Denguin

If you take them at their word it was a mechanical issue, that is actually a fairly generous offer, and I would take it.

OfficeGlenn

When I was at YYJ before my flight the AC gate agent told me it was a mechanical issue but with a different plane earlier in the day, not the plane I flew on, which caused the delay.

Is there any way to ascertain the actual reason for the delay short of taking AC's word on it?

Denguin

The "proper" way is to file an APPR claim with the CTA, who are allegedly supposed to make the airline substantiate their explanation with records, etc. Whether or not this happens, given the apparent COIs with the CTA & airlines, is debatable. The only other way would be to sue them in small claims court, but you'd have to assume the risk of losing the filing fee if you lose.

The mechanical issue could've still been the "main" cause of the delay if there was impact to the crew that was supposed to staff your flight. Could also be complete BS, but it's up to you how much you wish to pursue this. The APPR is pretty toothless, and the whole process pretty opaque, as you are finding out. The consumer is supposed to take the airline at their word for the cause of delay, but has no way of verifying it, which is just downright silly.

yulred

Maybe I’m being obtuse here, but aren’t all technical faults “unexpected”.

And wouldn’t they have to explain how this particular fault was related to safety? Or are they speaking about “airplane malfunctions” compromising safety in general?