Air Canada Rouge 767 Retirements

Old Jan 27, 2020, 12:37 pm
  #46  
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Originally Posted by YZF_Elite
Of course this assumes a need for replacements. There must be some kind of strategy involved to keeping a certain number of frames that can be retired or returned to lessors if economic conditions change either in terms of fuel costs or demand. If a hard recession were to hit, I would see TS/Rouge flying as taking a big hit, so having the flexibility to get smaller without big hits would also be important. I suspect this, along with not knowing if Rouge would ultimately be successful was why the 763s were a perfect animal for the project. Until the Max 8 is sorted and the TS merger finalized, I suspect no major fleet decisions will be made aside from contracting additional interim lift or figuring out how to best extend the 320/remaining 763 mainline frames.
They won't be extending the 767's and 320's - they will have 50 Maxes back in service likely by early fall and the 320's will start leaving very very quickly. Once the 330's are all in service, the remaining 67's will go as well.
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Old Jan 27, 2020, 1:26 pm
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Originally Posted by EdmFlyBoi
They won't be extending the 767's and 320's - they will have 50 Maxes back in service likely by early fall and the 320's will start leaving very very quickly. Once the 330's are all in service, the remaining 67's will go as well.
They are already extending the 320s as we speak. 320s, 763s and I assume E190s are all flying far more than planned and probably many deferred retirements. I don't mean they are going to be doing a bunch of D checks or anything, but they are certainly doing the bulk of the fill in for the Max8s at the moment and presumably also covering maintenance on the rest of the fleet before the summer flying season.
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Old Jan 27, 2020, 1:26 pm
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Originally Posted by EdmFlyBoi
They won't be extending the 767's and 320's - they will have 50 Maxes back in service likely by early fall and the 320's will start leaving very very quickly. Once the 330's are all in service, the remaining 67's will go as well.
Even assuming the MAX gets approval to fly again by summer, there is no way AC will have all back in service by the fall. AC themselves have said it will take upwards of a year to have all flying again. They've stopped hiring for the aircraft, so they'll need to hire and train for the 26 aircraft that were never delivered + I'm sure many existing pilots have been redeployed back to another fleet type.

It also remains to be seen what the re-certification activities will be like. FAA will be driving this an you can be damn sure they're going to be taking their sweet time with each aircraft.
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Old Jan 27, 2020, 1:39 pm
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Originally Posted by YZF_Elite
They are already extending the 320s as we speak. 320s, 763s and I assume E190s are all flying far more than planned and probably many deferred retirements. I don't mean they are going to be doing a bunch of D checks or anything, but they are certainly doing the bulk of the fill in for the Max8s at the moment and presumably also covering maintenance on the rest of the fleet before the summer flying season.
Extending generally means C and D checks. Theyve parked some of the older 320s so they can keep them for the summer as they would have otherwise timed out. The E90s go as soon as enough 220s enter the fleet.
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Old Jan 27, 2020, 2:12 pm
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Originally Posted by EdmFlyBoi
The E90s go as soon as enough 220s enter the fleet.
That may have been the plan, but I can't see it happening until the 7M8 is back.

They just don't have the capacity to retire any aircraft that can still fly.
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Old Jan 27, 2020, 2:46 pm
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Originally Posted by AC7E7
Though Air Canada may acquire more A330s for mainline, they may also do the same for Rouge. However, considering AC will be (or is) in negotiation with Boeing for compensation due to the MAX grounding, they may agree to acquire more 787s at a significant discount. If the cost is low enough, it may be worthwhile to place them at Rouge.
Except, the 787 is not well-suited to either the Rouge or the Air Transat network. Too long legged hence not efficient on shorter routes. Plus, there will likely be a growing availability of second hand 333s as many airlines replace these with either neos or 350s.
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Old Jan 27, 2020, 2:53 pm
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Originally Posted by Stranger
Except, the 787 is not well-suited to either the Rouge or the Air Transat network. Too long legged hence not efficient on shorter routes. Plus, there will likely be a growing availability of second hand 333s as many airlines replace these with either neos or 350s.
I agree. I wonder if AC is even planning on maintaining a large fleet of widebody aircraft at Rouge. As the 767s are retired, they may replace a portion of them with smaller aircraft, and the rest with A330s.
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Old Feb 18, 2020, 7:49 am
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No news on what will replace the type in the longer term, but AC's YE19 results released this morning indicate that rouge will be losing 2 763s this year, so it looks like the retirements are starting.
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Old Feb 18, 2020, 10:47 am
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I think AC was hoping to replace the 763's with Boeing's NMA, but given that project has been given a time out by management at Boeing, I'm thinking that many of the 763's will cycle out before Boeing has something suitable to offer. I expect the 330's to keep flying mainline for a while and eventually transition to rouge which would replace the 763's with a mix of A321's of various versions and some A330's for high capacity and longer routes.
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Old Feb 18, 2020, 11:00 am
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith
No news on what will replace the type in the longer term, but AC's YE19 results released this morning indicate that rouge will be losing 2 763s this year, so it looks like the retirements are starting.
There are 7 older than 25 years with another 3 that are soon to be 25. Got to think that more will be retired 2022 and 2023. I'd wager A321's or A332's start to replace the Rouge 67's. May be it will be clearer once Transat is fully apart of AC.
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Old Feb 18, 2020, 12:53 pm
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Funny that they're retiring two of the 767s this year and none in 2021. I would have figured they'd be losing a few each year.
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Old Feb 18, 2020, 1:05 pm
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Originally Posted by ride red
Funny that they're retiring two of the 767s this year and none in 2021. I would have figured they'd be losing a few each year.
The fleet plan seems to change quite frequently. Of the last two I was on, one was an ex-Hawaiian bird with the new bins and was in reasonable shape. The other was literally falling apart. I suspect there will be Rouge 767 retirements in 2021.
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Old Feb 18, 2020, 6:50 pm
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Rouge is largely irrelevant. Mainline has almost been fully converted to Rouge-density seating, and J was retrofitted into what were supposed to be all-Y aircraft to maintain at least some semblance of continuity across the AC brand. I suspect we'll see the brand dissappear, just like the "Tango" brand came and went.
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Old Feb 18, 2020, 7:17 pm
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Originally Posted by pitz
Rouge is largely irrelevant. Mainline has almost been fully converted to Rouge-density seating, and J was retrofitted into what were supposed to be all-Y aircraft to maintain at least some semblance of continuity across the AC brand. I suspect we'll see the brand dissappear, just like the "Tango" brand came and went.
Unlikely - Rouge has a different cost base with a flight attendant pool that is paid lower than mainline. It seems highly unlikely that it will be absorbed into mainline regardless of the densification of mainline Y. Rouge is going on 7 years. Tango lasted 3 and Zip 2. It's already been around more than twice as long. Much like Jetstar, it's going no where.
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Old Feb 18, 2020, 7:42 pm
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Originally Posted by EdmFlyBoi
Unlikely - Rouge has a different cost base with a flight attendant pool that is paid lower than mainline. It seems highly unlikely that it will be absorbed into mainline regardless of the densification of mainline Y. Rouge is going on 7 years. Tango lasted 3 and Zip 2. It's already been around more than twice as long. Much like Jetstar, it's going no where.
Nearly everything about "Tango" except charging a toonie for a can of pop was eventually incorporated back into mainline service standards.
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