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Dear Route Planning, YCD MCT is too damn high

Dear Route Planning, YCD MCT is too damn high

Old Sep 13, 19, 7:07 pm
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Dear Route Planning, YCD MCT is too damn high

YCD D-D connections are 20 minutes.
Unless it's AC-AC, in which case it's 45.

45 minutes. That's YYZ's MCT.

YYJ is 30. YQQ is 20. I would expect YCD to be similar to YQQ.

The DH3 from YVR does a 32 minute turn.

Why is the MCT so high? Can you please fix it? Just make it 30
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Old Sep 13, 19, 7:26 pm
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When you arrive at YCD (on AC anyways), you are directed along the tarmac to the doors near baggage claim and have to go back through CATSA to get on another flight. CATSA is a disaster at YCD: in part because checked baggage goes through CATSA along with people and in part because the airport is tiny for the number of people it serves. So 45 minutes actually doesn't sound that unreasonable.

I actually think you could misconnect trying to do a same-aircraft turnaround in YCD if another flight (WS?) is departing at the same time and CATSA is clogged.
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Old Sep 13, 19, 7:29 pm
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Originally Posted by eigenvector View Post
When you arrive at YCD (on AC anyways), you are directed along the tarmac to the doors near baggage claim and have to go back through CATSA to get on another flight. CATSA is a disaster at YCD: in part because checked baggage goes through CATSA along with people and in part because the airport is tiny for the number of people it serves. So 45 minutes actually doesn't sound that unreasonable.

I actually think you could misconnect trying to do a same-aircraft turnaround in YCD if another flight (WS?) is departing at the same time and CATSA is clogged.
There are many airports that direct you to "arrival" doors that are quite amenable to having people stay outside or go in a different door when presented with a compelling reason (i.e. a boarding pass).

YYG and YQX come to mind.
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Old Sep 14, 19, 12:50 am
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
YYG and YQX come to mind.
YSJ and YQM too, after they look at you funny for booking a YYZ-YSJ-YHZ routing... come to think of it, any of the backwaters out East. (I mean that in a loving way...)
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Old Sep 14, 19, 1:04 am
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
There are many airports that direct you to "arrival" doors that are quite amenable to having people stay outside or go in a different door when presented with a compelling reason (i.e. a boarding pass).

YYG and YQX come to mind.
I don't doubt that is true (probably at YCD too), but unless it's a published airport policy I wouldn't expect the MCT to account for it.
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Old Sep 14, 19, 1:14 am
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Originally Posted by eigenvector View Post
I don't doubt that is true (probably at YCD too), but unless it's a published airport policy I wouldn't expect the MCT to account for it.
It's not a published policy at any of the other airports (YQQ is another example), yet the published MCT at YQQ is 20 minutes.

YCD is literally the only airport AC flies to I've found where you can't turn around with the aircraft. This is, by far, the exception. I suspect it's a mistake.
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Old Sep 14, 19, 1:50 am
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Keep in mind that unlike YQQ, the scope of YCD connections isn't just turning around back to YVR on the same plane. There are YYC flights as well as a seasonal YYZ flight, and I've seen YVR-YCD-YYZ routings offered for sale (not sure about YYC-YCD-YVR or vice versa). The departure of the YYZ flight is also when the airport is most swamped and without an actual connections procedure, the relatively high MCT may actually be a deliberate choice.
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Old Sep 14, 19, 1:54 am
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Originally Posted by eigenvector View Post
Keep in mind that unlike YQQ, the scope of YCD connections isn't just turning around back to YVR on the same plane. There are YYC flights as well as a seasonal YYZ flight, and I've seen YVR-YCD-YYZ routings offered for sale (not sure about YYC-YCD-YVR or vice versa). The departure of the YYZ flight is also when the airport is most swamped and without an actual connections procedure, the relatively high MCT may actually be a deliberate choice.
Then look at YYG. Lots of actual connections (YYZ YUL YOW YHZ). They dump you landside if you don't talk to someone and "force" yourself back airside.

And it's 20 minutes.

Nothing that you've brought up wouldn't apply to countless airports that actually have a 20 minute MCT.

YCD is an outlier.
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Old Sep 14, 19, 5:10 am
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Old Sep 14, 19, 12:12 pm
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Originally Posted by eigenvector View Post
When you arrive at YCD (on AC anyways), you are directed along the tarmac to the doors near baggage claim and have to go back through CATSA to get on another flight. CATSA is a disaster at YCD: in part because checked baggage goes through CATSA along with people and in part because the airport is tiny for the number of people it serves. So 45 minutes actually doesn't sound that unreasonable.

I actually think you could misconnect trying to do a same-aircraft turnaround in YCD if another flight (WS?) is departing at the same time and CATSA is clogged.
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Old Sep 14, 19, 1:28 pm
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The airport and the security processes weren't designed for people gaming systems for personal reasons (EYW contests, mileage running, AQS gathering etc). Airports like Nanaimo are intended to start from or arrive at; there are no AC connections there, and neither the AC route planning department nor the airport authority itself should waste a minute of concern for people who are merely stopping by to earn a badge, collect a segment or kill some time aloft. No unescorted passenger should be allowed to linger airside or bypass the arrival and re-clearing lines - that becomes problematic for many reasons and could invalidate the Airport's Operating Certificate. As mentioned above, the airport is tiny for the number of people it serves...so with that in mind, maybe don't needlessly clog the system. It makes it more expensive and unpleasant for the people actually needing to use the airport.

Unpopular opinion with some, I'm sure. But this registers somewhere near 'zero' on the sympathy meter.
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Old Sep 14, 19, 1:39 pm
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Originally Posted by CZAMFlyer View Post
The airport and the security processes weren't designed for people gaming systems for personal reasons (EYW contests, mileage running, AQS gathering etc). Airports like Nanaimo are intended to start from or arrive at; there are no AC connections there, and neither the AC route planning department nor the airport authority itself should waste a minute of concern for people who are merely stopping by to earn a badge, collect a segment or kill some time aloft. No unescorted passenger should be allowed to linger airside or bypass the arrival and re-clearing lines - that becomes problematic for many reasons and could invalidate the Airport's Operating Certificate. As mentioned above, the airport is tiny for the number of people it serves...so with that in mind, maybe don't needlessly clog the system. It makes it more expensive and unpleasant for the people actually needing to use the airport.

Unpopular opinion with some, I'm sure. But this registers somewhere near 'zero' on the sympathy meter.
Nothing you've said wouldn't apply equally well to all the other airports I've mentioned, and they all have 20-30 minute MCTs.

So my question is: Why is YCD different?

No one has answered that.
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Old Sep 14, 19, 3:31 pm
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I don't know why it's different there. I also don't believe it needs to be.

I'm sorry this doesn't sound very helpful; I'm responding to the "can you please fix it" portion of your plea.
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Old Sep 14, 19, 3:54 pm
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Originally Posted by CZAMFlyer View Post
I don't know why it's different there. I also don't believe it needs to be.
I disagree. Either it's fine to do a 20 minute connection at an airport not "built" for it, or it isn't. These things should be consistent, because the reasoning behind the decision should be applied uniformly.

If 20 airports in the network have inappropriately short MCTs, they should be fixed. But since it's only 1 with an unusually long MCT, that really suggests there's an issue with it.

This isn't the first time I've found an odd MCT, and if all goes well, it won't be the first time FT has caused an MCT to be changed.

I don't think they decided to make YCD 45 minutes. I think they inadvertently made it 45 minutes.
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Old Sep 14, 19, 3:57 pm
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The reason why the MCT is 45 minutes is:

1) with the current airport setup of arriving pax going right into the baggage claim area, there is a mickey-mouse procedure for connections that is inefficient, both for pax and for bags. The terminal isn't set-up to handle connections.
2) With the YCD-YVR route taking a frequent hit to ATC flow delays, connections are often blown when they are too tight.

When the new departures area is complete in January 2020, arriving passengers will arrive in the departures area (just like every other airport essentially) and this will make it much easier for passengers to connect through YCD. I suspect the MCT might decrease then.

Lots of pax connect through YCD from YYC, YVR, and YYZ... you'd be surprised!
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