Expenses and compensation for delayed baggage (2018 onwards)
Sep 3, 2018, 3:45 pm
#1
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YHM (BUF/YYZ/YTZ in practice, formerly LHR)
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Posts: 974
Expenses and compensation for delayed baggage (2018 onwards)
Hoping that the collective expertise on this forum could help with a couple of questions I have regarding out-of-pocket expenses: eligibility and process.
First, some context:
A house guest arrived from Brazil yesterday, and her bag didn't make it. She has an AC delayed baggage slip with a file reference #. She was told verbally that she would be able to claim back out of pocket expenses.
It took her about 3 hours standing in line to register her bag, and didn't get out of YYZ until after all major stores had closed. As it was the Sunday before Labour Day, this meant we had to drive to Square One so she could get some fresh clothes, etc. as nowhere closer was open (I had called around on Sunday evening, just before the local stores closed, to check - while we were waiting).
It appears that we now have to submit a claim online ONCE her bag has turned up (still nothing yet, she gave my wife's cellphone as contact number - as this was the only number she had on her to hand - and we've heard nothing, but didn't really expect to today. I'm guessing the bag turn up some time tomorrow at the earliest, assuming it's made its way to YYZ today)
I have her receipts for essentials she had to go and buy (clothes, drugstore items), but we have two other expenses incurred that I feel should be eligible, but wanted to double-check how these should be handled when I can submit the claim (it looks like I can do so on her behalf, and our guest is happy for me to do so):
1. We drove to YYZ to meet our guest and pick her up, and timed it (as usual) to pick her up after she received her bag (watching her arrival on flightaware, and leaving home accordingly) - but had to park up and wait for her to be done (which obviously took a lot longer than usual, we had no way of knowing how long it would take her). So we've ended up with a $30 parking charge that we'd not have had to incur had the bag not been delayed, and she had to wait in line to register it and get her reference #, etc.
2. We had to drive to Square One and back (as nowhere in Hamilton was open today to get her some clothes), so feel there may be some justification in requesting mileage for that trip (which was solely down to this situation).
Any recent experience / data points in making this sort of claim in addition to the clothes/toiletries?
Thanks in advance for any help...
First, some context:
A house guest arrived from Brazil yesterday, and her bag didn't make it. She has an AC delayed baggage slip with a file reference #. She was told verbally that she would be able to claim back out of pocket expenses.
It took her about 3 hours standing in line to register her bag, and didn't get out of YYZ until after all major stores had closed. As it was the Sunday before Labour Day, this meant we had to drive to Square One so she could get some fresh clothes, etc. as nowhere closer was open (I had called around on Sunday evening, just before the local stores closed, to check - while we were waiting).
It appears that we now have to submit a claim online ONCE her bag has turned up (still nothing yet, she gave my wife's cellphone as contact number - as this was the only number she had on her to hand - and we've heard nothing, but didn't really expect to today. I'm guessing the bag turn up some time tomorrow at the earliest, assuming it's made its way to YYZ today)
I have her receipts for essentials she had to go and buy (clothes, drugstore items), but we have two other expenses incurred that I feel should be eligible, but wanted to double-check how these should be handled when I can submit the claim (it looks like I can do so on her behalf, and our guest is happy for me to do so):
1. We drove to YYZ to meet our guest and pick her up, and timed it (as usual) to pick her up after she received her bag (watching her arrival on flightaware, and leaving home accordingly) - but had to park up and wait for her to be done (which obviously took a lot longer than usual, we had no way of knowing how long it would take her). So we've ended up with a $30 parking charge that we'd not have had to incur had the bag not been delayed, and she had to wait in line to register it and get her reference #, etc.
2. We had to drive to Square One and back (as nowhere in Hamilton was open today to get her some clothes), so feel there may be some justification in requesting mileage for that trip (which was solely down to this situation).
Any recent experience / data points in making this sort of claim in addition to the clothes/toiletries?
Thanks in advance for any help...
Sep 3, 2018, 4:28 pm
#2
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Very doubtful. You are not the passenger and AC's obligation is not to you.
On the expenses, reasonable means reasonable under the circumstances. If something cost more than it ordinarily would because of the holiday, she should make that clear in her claim to AC.
As a general proposition, it is helpful to use AC's generous carry-on allowance to at least have the first 3-4 days of clothing, if only to avoid the bother associated with having to shop.
On the expenses, reasonable means reasonable under the circumstances. If something cost more than it ordinarily would because of the holiday, she should make that clear in her claim to AC.
As a general proposition, it is helpful to use AC's generous carry-on allowance to at least have the first 3-4 days of clothing, if only to avoid the bother associated with having to shop.
Sep 3, 2018, 5:30 pm
#3
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YHM (BUF/YYZ/YTZ in practice, formerly LHR)
Programs: rapidly diminishing
Posts: 974
Our guest isn't a frequent traveller (although she visited a couple of years ago), and still young (late teens). I'm hoping that she'll learn from such experiences
We had a conversation over breakfast regarding "reasonable expenses for essentials" and, as I understand it, today's shopping trip was for only such items. (I think she and Little Miss Sofasurfer may be going on subsequent mall explorations on a separate occasion...)
wrt the other expenses incurred, I gather that the online claim form requires completing each claimed expense item/transaction line by line - so it may be worth a try, presumably if a specific line item is not deemed eligible, it shouldn't jepoardize the rest of it *crosses fingers*
I take your point re. the obligation being to the pax - but if the alternative would have been to get a taxi/uber to the nearest place that's open on Labour Day, this would have been a much greater cost. From time to time, my day job requires having to interpret guidelines for eligible expenses for research projects - in this particular scenario, I'd have no hesitation wrt the travel cost incurred, and would be inclined to view the parking cost as not unreasonable (perhaps argue the delta between expected wait time vs actual, which I could look up, as our guest's alternative would have been to get a taxi/shuttle which would again have cost substantially more).
Sep 3, 2018, 6:41 pm
#4
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: FOTSG Tangerine Ex E35k (AC)
Posts: 5,612
I really doubt you’ll get either of these things expensed. However you can always submit them and see... while they maybe increases the chance itll all be rejected any half decent company will review all receipts and pay what they consider reasonable.
Or at least, what their terms define reasonable (speaking from company expenses here, generally I’ve been told to submit everything and anything that isn’t reasonable would be rejected). For example if my flight gets home 11am claiming lunch would be unreasonable. So probably would driving further to get groceries if I got back on a public holiday.
Or at least, what their terms define reasonable (speaking from company expenses here, generally I’ve been told to submit everything and anything that isn’t reasonable would be rejected). For example if my flight gets home 11am claiming lunch would be unreasonable. So probably would driving further to get groceries if I got back on a public holiday.
Sep 3, 2018, 7:13 pm
#5
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
Couple things here...
1) Does she not have any travel insurance? Cuz you should definitely look to her insurance for some more coverage.
2) These are often not hard & fast rules. It's annoying not knowing what you can be covered for, but I guess the airline uses that to their advantage too, because they can chose to cover what they want. So, you do what you can without buying too much and then try your best, but it's YMMV.
3) Don't submit the claim on her behalf. You're going to end up dealing with a person at some point and it'll seem pretty greedy to say "oh well we had to pay $30 to park because we had to wait for her while she waited in line". Honestly, she'd probably have better luck saying "I had to take a cab because the skytrain (YVR) was closed by the time the line was done". However, if SHE submits the claim and says something appealing to the sympathetic agent, she might have some success. "I felt so bad, but my friends ended up having to pay $30 for parking for 2 hours waiting for me because the line was so long and they came into the airport to look for me". I think the gas isn't gonna happen, you were just living your life. You can say we would never have driven (whatever) 10 miles that day to go buy this stuff. But then the suggestion is that you wouldn't have left the house period and that your friend was intending on staying indoors. Because if not, then my suggestion as an agent, who's no longer feeling sympathetic after granting you request 1 (in their mind) is now thinking, were you gonna go eat? go for a drink? see the sights? a movie? Then you could've bought these clothes or whatever on the way to/from one of those places. I just think it's a reach. If your friend had taken a taxi or an uber, there'd be a receipt and I think that would've been a reasonable request "hey I also had to get to a mall because it was a sunday, so I'd like to claim this uber ride as well". But of course it might also hinge on what you're claiming. If you're claiming $50 of stuff at most, like I was, they're probably more apt to help you out a bit more, if you're trying to claim $200, then I'd assume they'd shoot it down.
My personal experience was having my bag sent to Morocco instead of Portugal for like 4-5 days. I kept the expenses down, I should've known my insurance better because I could've actually bought stuff I could wear and I could've spent a lot of money and been comfortable. Lufthansa said I'd have to pick it up because it was a holiday weekend then sent my bag to Dusseldorf airport instead of Cologne. They also originally insisted that I send them the items I bought, plus the receipts. I said no because I would've probably spent more on shipping a package to Germany than it was worth, I offered to bring them to a LH employee at YVR and they didn't seem to like that idea. Eventually they backed off that, agreed to pay for my stuff. Then I emailed them back and said that I'd like for them to pay for my train ride, as it was almost 30 Euro return because they sent it to Dusseldorf instead of Cologne so I had travel to get it. She agreed and changed the payout, then sent the cheque.
So you CAN get compensated for ancillary or secondary items, but you've gotta ask nicely, state a good case and not shoot for the moon.
I strongly suggest YOU do not submit the request. Even if your friend doesn't speak great english, let her write it, mistakes included, and just edit it a bit or help with the English.
1) Does she not have any travel insurance? Cuz you should definitely look to her insurance for some more coverage.
2) These are often not hard & fast rules. It's annoying not knowing what you can be covered for, but I guess the airline uses that to their advantage too, because they can chose to cover what they want. So, you do what you can without buying too much and then try your best, but it's YMMV.
3) Don't submit the claim on her behalf. You're going to end up dealing with a person at some point and it'll seem pretty greedy to say "oh well we had to pay $30 to park because we had to wait for her while she waited in line". Honestly, she'd probably have better luck saying "I had to take a cab because the skytrain (YVR) was closed by the time the line was done". However, if SHE submits the claim and says something appealing to the sympathetic agent, she might have some success. "I felt so bad, but my friends ended up having to pay $30 for parking for 2 hours waiting for me because the line was so long and they came into the airport to look for me". I think the gas isn't gonna happen, you were just living your life. You can say we would never have driven (whatever) 10 miles that day to go buy this stuff. But then the suggestion is that you wouldn't have left the house period and that your friend was intending on staying indoors. Because if not, then my suggestion as an agent, who's no longer feeling sympathetic after granting you request 1 (in their mind) is now thinking, were you gonna go eat? go for a drink? see the sights? a movie? Then you could've bought these clothes or whatever on the way to/from one of those places. I just think it's a reach. If your friend had taken a taxi or an uber, there'd be a receipt and I think that would've been a reasonable request "hey I also had to get to a mall because it was a sunday, so I'd like to claim this uber ride as well". But of course it might also hinge on what you're claiming. If you're claiming $50 of stuff at most, like I was, they're probably more apt to help you out a bit more, if you're trying to claim $200, then I'd assume they'd shoot it down.
My personal experience was having my bag sent to Morocco instead of Portugal for like 4-5 days. I kept the expenses down, I should've known my insurance better because I could've actually bought stuff I could wear and I could've spent a lot of money and been comfortable. Lufthansa said I'd have to pick it up because it was a holiday weekend then sent my bag to Dusseldorf airport instead of Cologne. They also originally insisted that I send them the items I bought, plus the receipts. I said no because I would've probably spent more on shipping a package to Germany than it was worth, I offered to bring them to a LH employee at YVR and they didn't seem to like that idea. Eventually they backed off that, agreed to pay for my stuff. Then I emailed them back and said that I'd like for them to pay for my train ride, as it was almost 30 Euro return because they sent it to Dusseldorf instead of Cologne so I had travel to get it. She agreed and changed the payout, then sent the cheque.
So you CAN get compensated for ancillary or secondary items, but you've gotta ask nicely, state a good case and not shoot for the moon.
I strongly suggest YOU do not submit the request. Even if your friend doesn't speak great english, let her write it, mistakes included, and just edit it a bit or help with the English.
Sep 3, 2018, 7:28 pm
#6
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: FOTSG Tangerine Ex E35k (AC)
Posts: 5,612
Not quite the same (weather) but when I got back at 2am instead of 10pm or so AC told me to take a hike when I asked them to cover the cab because public transit was closed for the night.
And that was with OMW. Once you get to your designation AC don’t tend to care and delivering your bag never seems to be that urgent. I’d expect 2-3 days. Negative yes, but realistic I fear.
Travel insurance is a good thought. I never even thought about claiming on mine with the above or when my luggage was misplaced for 3 days.
And that was with OMW. Once you get to your designation AC don’t tend to care and delivering your bag never seems to be that urgent. I’d expect 2-3 days. Negative yes, but realistic I fear.
Travel insurance is a good thought. I never even thought about claiming on mine with the above or when my luggage was misplaced for 3 days.
Sep 4, 2018, 6:14 am
#8
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YHM (BUF/YYZ/YTZ in practice, formerly LHR)
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Posts: 974
Thanks, folks - appreciate the detailed responses and accompanying rationales!
Our guest does have travel insurance of some description (the first thing we suggested to her was to call her insurance company) - but when she called was told she won't be able to claim anything. I believe she had to deal with a call centre in Argentina, and speak with someone who seemed to speak a mixture of Spanish and Portuguese (and, seemingly, neither very well), and so I'm tempted to suggest she channels a variant of HUACA, and just call again and hope to get through to a better agent.
It seems that we can't submit a claim online until her bag actually turns up, but at least she has some clothes to wear in the meantime.
Our guest does have travel insurance of some description (the first thing we suggested to her was to call her insurance company) - but when she called was told she won't be able to claim anything. I believe she had to deal with a call centre in Argentina, and speak with someone who seemed to speak a mixture of Spanish and Portuguese (and, seemingly, neither very well), and so I'm tempted to suggest she channels a variant of HUACA, and just call again and hope to get through to a better agent.
It seems that we can't submit a claim online until her bag actually turns up, but at least she has some clothes to wear in the meantime.
Sep 4, 2018, 7:49 am
#9
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton G,Nexus, Amex MR Plat,IHG Plat
Posts: 4,422
Thanks, folks - appreciate the detailed responses and accompanying rationales!
Our guest does have travel insurance of some description (the first thing we suggested to her was to call her insurance company) - but when she called was told she won't be able to claim anything. I believe she had to deal with a call centre in Argentina, and speak with someone who seemed to speak a mixture of Spanish and Portuguese (and, seemingly, neither very well), and so I'm tempted to suggest she channels a variant of HUACA, and just call again and hope to get through to a better agent.
It seems that we can't submit a claim online until her bag actually turns up, but at least she has some clothes to wear in the meantime.
Our guest does have travel insurance of some description (the first thing we suggested to her was to call her insurance company) - but when she called was told she won't be able to claim anything. I believe she had to deal with a call centre in Argentina, and speak with someone who seemed to speak a mixture of Spanish and Portuguese (and, seemingly, neither very well), and so I'm tempted to suggest she channels a variant of HUACA, and just call again and hope to get through to a better agent.
It seems that we can't submit a claim online until her bag actually turns up, but at least she has some clothes to wear in the meantime.
Sep 6, 2018, 9:54 am
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YHM (BUF/YYZ/YTZ in practice, formerly LHR)
Programs: rapidly diminishing
Posts: 974
Bag arrived last night around 9:40pm last night.
We received a phone call around 6:30-7:30pm informing us it would be there within 2-3 hours.
I'd been tracking the bag using the WorldTracer website link that is on AC's Delayed or Damaged Bag webpage
(I had noticed that the flight the bag was supposed to be put on was put back by a day, some time between Sunday and Monday - didn't take screen grabs, don't think it'll make any difference to our claim, but thought it's worth sharing that data point...)
The status text seemed to be minimal, compared to other delivery tracking sites I've used. It would be nice to be able to sign up for email/SMS notifications (if any AC/WT lurkers are reading this, or can be told ;-)
As I understand it, we've got 21 days from when the bag arrived to make the online claim. Will try and get that done over the weekend.
Although guidance of what can be expected as "reasonable" for expenses seems to be non-existent, IIRC we're looking at ~$250-300 for being without bags for >96 hours - which doesn't seem particularly silly to me. Seems that AC have an obligation under the Montreal Convention, I think it's a question of how much of an effort it will be, and just how much will they reimburse.
I'm also going to suggest to our guest she tries her insurer again (what's Portuguese for HUACA? ;-)
We received a phone call around 6:30-7:30pm informing us it would be there within 2-3 hours.
I'd been tracking the bag using the WorldTracer website link that is on AC's Delayed or Damaged Bag webpage
(I had noticed that the flight the bag was supposed to be put on was put back by a day, some time between Sunday and Monday - didn't take screen grabs, don't think it'll make any difference to our claim, but thought it's worth sharing that data point...)
The status text seemed to be minimal, compared to other delivery tracking sites I've used. It would be nice to be able to sign up for email/SMS notifications (if any AC/WT lurkers are reading this, or can be told ;-)
As I understand it, we've got 21 days from when the bag arrived to make the online claim. Will try and get that done over the weekend.
Although guidance of what can be expected as "reasonable" for expenses seems to be non-existent, IIRC we're looking at ~$250-300 for being without bags for >96 hours - which doesn't seem particularly silly to me. Seems that AC have an obligation under the Montreal Convention, I think it's a question of how much of an effort it will be, and just how much will they reimburse.
I'm also going to suggest to our guest she tries her insurer again (what's Portuguese for HUACA? ;-)
Sep 6, 2018, 10:04 am
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YHM (BUF/YYZ/YTZ in practice, formerly LHR)
Programs: rapidly diminishing
Posts: 974
As mentioned by @Geoflying on another thread
The airpassengerrights.ca site contains what seems to be a well-written summary of passenger rights, step-by-step guides, and sample letters (not checked out the latter yet).
Thought I'd provide the link on this thread in case anyone else needs it...
The airpassengerrights.ca site contains what seems to be a well-written summary of passenger rights, step-by-step guides, and sample letters (not checked out the latter yet).
Thought I'd provide the link on this thread in case anyone else needs it...
Sep 6, 2018, 7:56 pm
#12
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AC E35K, NEXUS
Posts: 4,368
Note that AC will almost certainly cite their "policies" as to what they will or won't reimburse. When pressed, they may offer something less than Montreal Convention as an exception for goodwill. It may be necessary to press further for an explanation why the full provisions of the Montreal Convention would not apply (i.e., show that you know what it provides).
That said, if you're polling for opinions on "reasonable" I am not sure I would find reimbursement of fuel/mileage and parking incurred by "friends and family". I am all for airlines taking responsibility to provide interim stuff while she awaits the bag, but the inconvenience and cost incurred by others to enable her to get the stuff seems outside that scope to me.
That said, if you're polling for opinions on "reasonable" I am not sure I would find reimbursement of fuel/mileage and parking incurred by "friends and family". I am all for airlines taking responsibility to provide interim stuff while she awaits the bag, but the inconvenience and cost incurred by others to enable her to get the stuff seems outside that scope to me.
Oct 15, 2018, 1:03 pm
#13
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YHM (BUF/YYZ/YTZ in practice, formerly LHR)
Programs: rapidly diminishing
Posts: 974
Another update, as a couple of people asked for it.
Claim submitted 13th Sep
Received the following email 12th Oct:
For reference, receipts totalling $110.56 were submitted. It turned out to be less than I had estimated - our guest did very well in the sales and also tried to keep what she felt were the "essentials" as separate purchases. As advised upthread by others, we decided against adding the YYZ parking charge incurred, and mileage for driving to Square One on Labour Day as it was the only place open.
To be fair, I thought there was a little duplication of items on her submitted receipts, and I really don't have the time or inclination to trawl through the receipts to try and guess what they may have rejected. A great deal of said items happened to be sale items (and showed up with significant discounts on the receipts) - which makes me think rationale for acceptance/rejection was more down to list of items against total amount of delay, as opposed to actual dollar amount.
I also ended up submitting the claim on behalf of our house guest. Didn't have to interact with anyone, just sent the online form (cover note written oh behalf of her was "signed" in her name, though - so we'll see who the cheque is made out to when it arrives...)
I will note that the online form is somewhat time-consuming to use. Each item has to be submitted individually, with a lot of descriptive information for each item (and I could see how people might lose patience and decide not to bother). But, the system *does* seem to work!
Claim submitted 13th Sep
Received the following email 12th Oct:
Dear Sofasurfer,
Thank you for writing to us about your recent trip when your luggage wasn’t available for you when you landed. We would like to apologize for the inconvenience this situation has caused you.
In response to your claim, a cheque in the amount of $102.17 CAD has been authorized. Please allow 3 to 4 weeks for processing and postage. It will be sent to you by regular mail
Thank you for writing to us about your recent trip when your luggage wasn’t available for you when you landed. We would like to apologize for the inconvenience this situation has caused you.
In response to your claim, a cheque in the amount of $102.17 CAD has been authorized. Please allow 3 to 4 weeks for processing and postage. It will be sent to you by regular mail
and also tried to keep what she felt were the "essentials" as separate purchases. As advised upthread by others, we decided against adding the YYZ parking charge incurred, and mileage for driving to Square One on Labour Day as it was the only place open.To be fair, I thought there was a little duplication of items on her submitted receipts, and I really don't have the time or inclination to trawl through the receipts to try and guess what they may have rejected. A great deal of said items happened to be sale items (and showed up with significant discounts on the receipts) - which makes me think rationale for acceptance/rejection was more down to list of items against total amount of delay, as opposed to actual dollar amount.
I also ended up submitting the claim on behalf of our house guest. Didn't have to interact with anyone, just sent the online form (cover note written oh behalf of her was "signed" in her name, though - so we'll see who the cheque is made out to when it arrives...)
I will note that the online form is somewhat time-consuming to use. Each item has to be submitted individually, with a lot of descriptive information for each item (and I could see how people might lose patience and decide not to bother). But, the system *does* seem to work!
Aug 25, 2019, 4:17 pm
#14
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: YYT
Programs: M-Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Aeroplan 50K, DragonPass, AMEX MR, NEXUS
Posts: 1,715
Claiming interim expenses, delayed baggage on AC
My bag was delayed the other day flying YYZ-YXU, and my credit card requires me to submit an expense claim with AC before they will cover it. I purchased about $600 worth of stuff as my cc allows up to $750. Filling out the forms on the AC site right now, and it asks me if I will be claiming with my insurer.
I will, of course, be claiming with them, but this is only if AC rejects me. Quite frankly I don't really care about the result as RBC should cover me either way, but I feel like AC may screw me over if I say that I am claiming with my insurer also (I am only claiming if AC rejects it, or refuses to cover everything).
I will, of course, be claiming with them, but this is only if AC rejects me. Quite frankly I don't really care about the result as RBC should cover me either way, but I feel like AC may screw me over if I say that I am claiming with my insurer also (I am only claiming if AC rejects it, or refuses to cover everything).
Aug 25, 2019, 7:21 pm
#15
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toronto
Programs: AC SE MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,101
They may then ask you to send them your insurer's response (and deduct that payment from your reimbursement)
They take forever to follow up so they assume the insurer would have responded by then...
They take forever to follow up so they assume the insurer would have responded by then...