24left

This thread discussion is no different than those on the forums of other airlines on FT and has been pretty calm considering the divergent views on blame AC or don't blame AC.


You don't know me or my politics so don't assume until you ask.

There are equal numbers of people is all ranges of the political spectrum who feel it their job to make a media issue out of EVERY. SINGLE. THING.

It takes very little to see the term used widely in mainstream media, in social media and in all sundry areas where those with a specific point of view feel it necessary to berate and bully those who disagree with them. Applies to all issues whether they be plastic bags, "climate change", etc., and those who think that some in society have found every manner of nonsense for which they have a right to pursue.

I believe at least one poster in this thread has had an agenda since their first post and has gone after anyone who does not share their opinion.

While the 12 year old girl felt her privacy and rights may have been infringed upon, and as mentioned, AC staff should have asked for the guardian or coach in this case perhaps, and AC issued an apology of sorts, there are those of us who still believe this became a minor media story (since the major networks did not report it) because one or more person decided it should be, either to embarrass AC or for some other reason.
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CZAMFlyer

Being a white middle aged white man has very little to do with anything, in the context of boarding procedures.

I am generally waved through without glance at US security and gate screening points, yet more closely scrutinized and asked to remove any headwear at gates in Canada. I'm wearing a toque in the photo on my Nexus card, yet local AC agents in winter never fail to ask me to remove the exact same toque to verify my identity. Whenever I raise an eyebrow and ask if they see the photo, they tend to laugh and say "hah - I didn't notice...how funny. I honestly don't know why we do half the things we do". One can take away no small measure of comfort from that revealing statement.

I have one passport featuring my likeness clean shaven with full head of hair, and another featuring me with a beard and a smooth noggin. The point is that I can walk up to a gate looking exactly like my photo ID, or very different from it, and my appearance vis a vis my ID document makes not a whit of difference to the boarding process.

That's not been my experience at SFO. They generally 'wave through without glance' as described above. Granted, I depart from SFO on AC at a much lower frequency than you (maybe 6x/year), so you've likely had a wider range of experiences.

I agree with your assertion that there aren't any evident areas one could consider as private near the AC gates at SFO.

RangerNS

If a law was broken, that is for a court to decide. AC felt the need to secure positive ID, how reasonable the accommodations they made (or did not make) is a question for the courts.

But getting past TSA security is not the only security check that PAX musty comply with. They are boarding an AC aircraft going to Canada. AC has customs and immigration and their own internal obligations. Was this act needed based on those? I can't say. But "We got past the TSA" means nothing. TSA allowed them in the airport. They allowed them on an aircraft. TSA does not enforce Canadian immigration laws and policy, and TSA does not enforce ACs corporate security rules.

RoxyMountain

How vast do you think the conspiracy is?

CZAMFlyer

Laying down a pejorative term like Social Justice Warrior - or its initialism - does little but inflame a debate and cast aspersions upon a particular person or group. It may not carry the weight of some more denigrating names, but when assigning labels, we must be prepared to understand if others object to their use. Whether a term is used widely by others or on social media does not necessarily make it less inflammatory to use oneself.

24left

LOL

Badenoch

I have never been asked to remove a hat by a gate agent for any airline. I have never seen anyone else asked to remove a hat by a gate agent for any airline. I have been asked by CATSA, CBSA, CBP and TSA but never a gate agent. The experience of Muslim 12 years old seems different.

CZAMFlyer

Well, as that single-perspective anecdote completely shatters my assertion, I'll concede that Air Canada agents never ask anybody at any location to remove hats.

canadiancow

I never* wear a hat while traveling, but I've certainly seen plenty of GAs ask some people in baseball hats to remove them.

^

N1120A

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what would happen if some idiot at AC told Jagmeet Singh, or Harjit Sajjan for that matter, to remove their dastar. I mean, I already know the answer, but this ought to be good.

LOL - Air Canada's "corporate security rules" must be compliant with both Canadian and American law in this circumstance. Causing a woman to remove a hijab during a warranted police search (https://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...ommission-says) is illegal in Canada, so what makes you think it would be legal for Air Canada to do on a security screened airline passenger? Oh...right...it isn't. Also, I guarantee you it is illegal for a business to interfere with a person's right to wear religious clothing in the State of California.

It is just a stupid term generally.

1) There is no question that, at least at YYZ, they tell people to take baseball caps off. It is obnoxious, does not add to security and highly theatrical, but it is the rule.

2) I'm a huge baseball fan, and I even list my religious beliefs as Dodger Baseball, but that isn't actual religious adherence, now is it?

3) Removing a baseball cap is not even close to the same thing as someone wearing a religious garment.

Badenoch

My assertion is an AC gate agent is far more likely to demand a head scarf be removed from a little Muslim girl than a middle-aged white woman wearing a scarf or a white man wearing a baseball cap.

ffsim

And while that reality can be tiresome to onlookers, often it’s the only mechanism available to the average Joe to seek some sort of adequate reparation from a massive, faceless corporation.

canopus27

Not being a Muslim girl, I can't provide proof to the contrary.

What I​​​ can say (as I already did, earlier in this thread) is that my son (a white man) was asked to remove his baseball cap before boarding most (if not all) of our 30+ flights during last year's EYW run. This was across the country - we literally landed in every province.

So I can asset, with confidence, that any claim that "white men wearing baseball caps will not be asked to remove their hats to verify their identity during the boarding process", is false. At least some of them are (essentially always) required to do so.

Just like the Air Canada tariffs say they will be.

RangerNS

I can't comment on most any religious head/face coverings, for any gender, but as a white man of Western European culture stock, I am personally offended by other white men of Western European stock wearing hats inside, sitting, or eating.

rickg523