Aeroplan misleading fees

Old Aug 3, 19, 12:36 pm
  #1  
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Aeroplan misleading fees

Hi everyone,
I am a E35k member, who about a week ago booked a fixed millage reward between YYT-YVR for my family,
as shown below, I paid a $15 per person "carrier surcharge" even though I am E35K, which in Canada and the US is supposed to be waived. I called Aeroplan about it and was told that the "carrier surcharge" I paid wasnt actually carrier surcharge, but another tax that for whatever reason is called carrier surcharge, and therefor cannot be refunded.

In my opinion it is very misleading by aeroplan for this, and it peeves me that I paid for something that was disguised to look like something else. Does anyone know if there is a way that I could go about actually getting this refunded, or at least so the website is clear?
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Old Aug 3, 19, 1:22 pm
  #2  
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Originally Posted by ryanpower8 View Post
Hi everyone,
I am a E35k member, who about a week ago booked a fixed millage reward between YYT-YVR for my family,
as shown below, I paid a $15 per person "carrier surcharge" even though I am E35K, which in Canada and the US is supposed to be waived. I called Aeroplan about it and was told that the "carrier surcharge" I paid wasnt actually carrier surcharge, but another tax that for whatever reason is called carrier surcharge, and therefor cannot be refunded.
.......
In my opinion it is very misleading by aeroplan for this, and it peeves me that I paid for something that was disguised to look like something else. Does anyone know if there is a way that I could go about actually getting this refunded, or at least so the website is clear?
@ryanpower8

It's the NAV CAN fee. Cannot be waived and Aeroplan has never bothered to name it properly. Just because.

BTW, did you do a search abut this before you posted?
This topic and the NAV CAN issue are discussed in these threads.

AP - Carrier Surcharge Waived?!

Can anyone explain Carrier Surcharges on Aeroplan award ticket to me?

Carrier Surcharges on Aeroplan

Carrier Surcharge for Super Elite on Fixed Mile Reward


There are also a number of other threads related to carrier surcharges on both Aeroplan and AC tickets.
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Old Aug 3, 19, 1:56 pm
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Originally Posted by ryanpower8 View Post
Hi everyone,
I am a E35k member, who about a week ago booked a fixed millage reward between YYT-YVR for my family,
as shown below, I paid a $15 per person "carrier surcharge" even though I am E35K, which in Canada and the US is supposed to be waived. I called Aeroplan about it and was told that the "carrier surcharge" I paid wasnt actually carrier surcharge, but another tax that for whatever reason is called carrier surcharge, and therefor cannot be refunded.
Further to what @24left posted, your basic premise that "carrier surcharge" is to be waived is incorrect.

From the Altitude website:

For Fixed Mileage Flight Rewards reservations enjoy a carrier surcharge (YQ only) waiver for travel within Canada and between Canada and the U.S. on flights operated by Air Canada, Air Canada Express and Air Canada Rouge.
Altitude website is pretty clear that only the YQ (i.e. fuel surcharge) portion of the carrier surcharge roll-up is waived.
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Old Aug 3, 19, 2:22 pm
  #4  
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Originally Posted by YEG USER View Post
Further to what @24left posted, your basic premise that "carrier surcharge" is to be waived is incorrect.

From the Altitude website:



Altitude website is pretty clear that only the YQ (i.e. fuel surcharge) portion of the carrier surcharge roll-up is waived.
100% correct, but as @24left mentioned, this isn't actually a "carrier surcharge". I've definitely seen it explicitly called out as "Nav Can" somewhere (old Aeroplan or maybe revenue tickets). The labeling just gets really annoying when you know you have a "carrier surcharge waiver".
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Old Aug 3, 19, 2:45 pm
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I found this. And yes, I know it explains the fee, not why Aeroplan does not name it properly.

Aeroplan now collecting NAV Canada fees?

(bolding mine)

May 12, 2010

Originally Posted by CdnFlier View Post
I hadn't seen anything about this posted on here but I was poking around the AE website and stumbled across this notice:

Effective April 14—Aeroplan will collect NAV Canada service charges on flight rewards on behalf of Air Canada
Effective April 14, Aeroplan will collect NAV Canada service charges on Aeroplan flight rewards on behalf of Air Canada.


NAV CANADA is Canada’s civil air navigation service provider that co-ordinates the safe and efficient movement of aircraft in Canadian domestic airspace and international airspace assigned to Canadian control.

The NAV Canada surcharge is collected by airline operators and passed along to NAV Canada to cover the costs of these air navigation facilities and services:
Air traffic control
Flight information
Weather briefings
Aeronautical information services
Airport advisory services
Electronic aids to navigation

The NAV Canada service charge will be included in the amount shown under the "Review airport taxes and surcharges" section on your flight reward booking confirmation.

The service charge is applicable on...
Flight rewards that have an Air Canada flight segment (per direction)
Domestic, transborder and select International Flights on Air Canada

The surcharge is not applicable
On certain international routes (because not all countries have approved NAV Canada service charge collection)
For infants aged 2 years and under, seated on parent’s lap

The NAV Canada service charge will be as follows:

Itinerary NAV Canada Charges
Domestic (within Canada) $15 per direction containing at least one Air Canada segment (30.00 cad for round trip)
Transborder
Between Canada & the U.S.
(including Hawaii) $7.50 per direction containing at least one Air Canada segment ($15.00 for round trip)

International
Between Canada & Mexico
Between Canada & South America
Between Canada & Australia or New Zealand

Between Canada & Asia via the Pacific except to/from Hong Kong, Korea, Japan, and Taiwan $15 per direction containing at least one Air Canada segment ($30 for round trip)
International
Between Canada & Caribbean
Between Canada & Costa Rica
$7.50 per direction containing at least one Air Canada segment ($15 for round trip)



Did I miss a discussion about this or did AE just quietly inflate the cost of all awards?

If I missed it.. sorry for reposting this!
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Old Aug 3, 19, 2:46 pm
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Originally Posted by 24left View Post
@ryanpower8

It's the NAV CAN fee. Cannot be waived and Aeroplan has never bothered to name it properly. Just because.

BTW, did you do a search abut this before you posted?
This topic and the NAV CAN issue are discussed in these threads.
I think the NavCan fee needs to be higher! like maybe 2x or 3x the existing rate!!!!! (not that I have a vested interest or anything)
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Old Aug 3, 19, 2:58 pm
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Originally Posted by 24left View Post
It's the NAV CAN fee. Cannot be waived
That's not true. NAVCAN charges the airlines based on distance and aircraft weight. Many years ago, the airlines decided that they would attempt to pass it on by charging customers the $7.50 per one-way fee. But, unlike AIFs or ATSC, the NAVCAN fee is not remitted directly, i.e. it's a BS charge made up by AC. I'm sure that ~20 years ago when NAVCAN was created in its present form, the airlines were mad about having to fund it and came up with this as a way to make it look like a tax, but at this point it exists, like YQ, only to screw over customers (and TAs) by reducing the portion of the fare that's eligible for discounts (and TA commissions), charging it on award tickets, misleading search engines that sort by base fare, etc.

Therefore AC can waive, eliminate, or reduce it at its discretion. Not that it will. Just like YQ.

P.S. If you're curious about NAVCAN service charges, check out the calculator on their website. Note that I've been told by someone knowledgeable that both AC and WS recieve large bulk discounts off the posted rate that fees this calculator, although I haven't investigated the details myself.

and Aeroplan has never bothered to name it properly. Just because.
Given what I've explained above, I actually think that "carrier surcharge" is a very suitable name for this charge
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Old Aug 3, 19, 3:05 pm
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Originally Posted by yyz_atc_qq View Post
I think the NavCan fee needs to be higher! like maybe 2x or 3x the existing rate!!!!!
Why, so we can pay those fatcat ATC guys more to sit around and basically play video games all day? I mean, how hard can that be? AC412, turn right. WS655, turn left. And so on. Someone who's good at Frogger can probably pick it up in like 30 minutes, right

P.S. With the money on offer at the Fortnite world cup, it's getting harder to denigrate video games, isn't it?
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Old Aug 3, 19, 3:31 pm
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith View Post
That's not true. NAVCAN charges the airlines based on distance and aircraft weight. Many years ago, the airlines decided that they would attempt to pass it on by charging customers the $7.50 per one-way fee. But, unlike AIFs or ATSC, the NAVCAN fee is not remitted directly, i.e. it's a BS charge made up by AC. I'm sure that ~20 years ago when NAVCAN was created in its present form, the airlines were mad about having to fund it and came up with this as a way to make it look like a tax, but at this point it exists, like YQ, only to screw over customers (and TAs) by reducing the portion of the fare that's eligible for discounts (and TA commissions), charging it on award tickets, misleading search engines that sort by base fare, etc.

Therefore AC can waive, eliminate, or reduce it at its discretion. Not that it will. Just like YQ.

P.S. If you're curious about NAVCAN service charges, check out the calculator on their website. Note that I've been told by someone knowledgeable that both AC and WS recieve large bulk discounts off the posted rate that fees this calculator, although I haven't investigated the details myself.



Given what I've explained above, I actually think that "carrier surcharge" is a very suitable name for this charge


I m aware of how the NAV CAN fee is calculated. In this thread, Carrier Surcharge for Super Elite on Fixed Mile Reward

@jaysona posted this on July 27, 2015

Originally Posted by jaysona View Post
Agreed, but I doubt AC and AP have the IT capacity to calculate the specific charge for a specific mission, since the NAV Canada charges are based on MTOW, Distance and various route and terminal charges. They have probably taken some total years costs averaged by the number of passengers carried, rounded the number up to what the current charge is.

More info on the NAV Canada charges can be found here.
He linked it to the site where if you click "Customer Guide to Charges", there is a PDF doc with the calculations and details. Actually interesting.

NAV CANADA: Products and Services - Customer Guide to Charges


And yes to your point:

"....but at this point it exists, like YQ, only to screw over customers (and TAs) by reducing the portion of the fare that's eligible for discounts (and TA commissions), charging it on award tickets, misleading search engines that sort by base fare, etc."

AC knows it, Aeroplan knows it and some who read this forum know it. It doesn't change the fact that it is still there, annoying everyone it can.
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Old Aug 3, 19, 8:36 pm
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Not entirely related to your post, but do you happen to live in Quebec? If so there's a class action lawsuit you should get in on!

https://www.aeroplan.com/whats_new/n...165_2019_05_14

(Actually you would be automatically enrolled but figured I'd let you know all the same
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Old Aug 3, 19, 8:42 pm
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Originally Posted by gonebabygone View Post
Not entirely related to your post, but do you happen to live in Quebec? If so there's a class action lawsuit you should get in on!

https://www.aeroplan.com/whats_new/n...165_2019_05_14

(Actually you would be automatically enrolled but figured I'd let you know all the same

Indeed. And there was a "fun" discussion in this thread back in May

Aeroplan notice for Quebec residents about class action lawsuit on fuel surcharges
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