AC imposes 'no fly' ban, demands $18K from woman after ticket scam
#91
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Remove air canada from the scenario and generalize it. Fraudster A advertises fantastic deals for product X. Buyer B "purchases" product X from Fraudster A who purchases Product X from the producer/distribtor/vendor of Product X using a fraudulent credit card and Buyer picks it up from the producer/distributor/vendor of Product X. The producer/distributor/vendor finds that Product X was purchased fraudulently.
Can the producer/distributor/vendor take Product X back? What if Product X is consumable and has been used up by Buyer B, what recourse is there then?
Is it reasonable for the producer/distributor/vendor
to assume tha Fraudster A and Buyer B are accomplices? And if so arent they within their rights to refuse to do any more busoness with Fraudster A and Buyer B
What is the role that the CC company plays here? Should there be an investigation.
Can the producer/distributor/vendor take Product X back? What if Product X is consumable and has been used up by Buyer B, what recourse is there then?
Is it reasonable for the producer/distributor/vendor
to assume tha Fraudster A and Buyer B are accomplices? And if so arent they within their rights to refuse to do any more busoness with Fraudster A and Buyer B
What is the role that the CC company plays here? Should there be an investigation.
I think it's actually worse than that. As far as AC is concerned she bought a ticket with a stolen CC number. That there was someone who did the work for her is immaterial. "Fraudster A" is out of the loop. Perhaps in theory she can have a recourse against him, that is, if she could locate him, good luck.
#92
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I have no sympathy for this person who knew very well what she was doing
Last edited by tcook052; Jun 4, 2019 at 8:43 pm Reason: Off topic posting
#93
Join Date: Apr 2002
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I think it's actually worse than that. As far as AC is concerned she bought a ticket with a stolen CC number. That there was someone who did the work for her is immaterial. "Fraudster A" is out of the loop. Perhaps in theory she can have a recourse against him, that is, if she could locate him, good luck.
I mean, we have literally hundreds, actually thousands of entities that claim the ability to enter into and bind AC to contracts. But just how am I, Joe Consumer, supposed to verify that XYZ is actually truly acting as an agent of AC?
I don't see an "Agent Lookup" on AC's website. AC's case that these tickets were purchased from an entity that had no authority to bind AC to a contract would be bolstered if AC actually made it public just who is authorized, aside from AC employees, to act in agency for AC.
#94
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C’mon. If anyone from any country thinks buying plane tickets on Wechat is legit then they haven’t Educated themselves in the business of air travel. I am simply not buying this.
#95
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He was not named capt. cool. Friends had used him before.
Last edited by yul36; Jun 4, 2019 at 8:44 pm
#96
Join Date: Apr 2002
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So I totally buy the story. Especially since we're probably talking about a reasonably well-to-do Chinese national who's attending, not engineering school, but cooking school of all things.
Last edited by tcook052; Jun 4, 2019 at 8:44 pm Reason: Off topic
#97
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If you ask half the Canadian travelling public whether or not a $600 round-trip YVR-YYZ is "full fare economy", they'd probably answer yes. Lots of people legitimately have no clue about pricing. If they travel on business, a common belief is that the numbers on the tickets are heavily discounted/rebated/etc., in a way that makes the travel "really" a lot less than what's printed on the ticket. Until the big public sector crack-downs a few years ago, lots of those people just gleefully booked at the last minute, submitted their $2700 expense claims for domestic transcons, and then 'thought' AC was being really nice by always upgrading them.
So I totally buy the story. Especially since we're probably talking about a reasonably well-to-do Chinese national who's attending, not engineering school, but cooking school of all things.
So I totally buy the story. Especially since we're probably talking about a reasonably well-to-do Chinese national who's attending, not engineering school, but cooking school of all things.
#98
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If you ask half the Canadian travelling public whether or not a $600 round-trip YVR-YYZ is "full fare economy", they'd probably answer yes. Lots of people legitimately have no clue about pricing. If they travel on business, a common belief is that the numbers on the tickets are heavily discounted/rebated/etc., in a way that makes the travel "really" a lot less than what's printed on the ticket. Until the big public sector crack-downs a few years ago, lots of those people just gleefully booked at the last minute, submitted their $2700 expense claims for domestic transcons, and then 'thought' AC was being really nice by always upgrading them.
So I totally buy the story. Especially since we're probably talking about a reasonably well-to-do Chinese national who's attending, not engineering school, but cooking school of all things.
So I totally buy the story. Especially since we're probably talking about a reasonably well-to-do Chinese national who's attending, not engineering school, but cooking school of all things.
#99
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It's not common, but still done/asked and travel agents to lower prices (In Taiwan I think it's cultural thing to haggle prices if possible, and guess in China too). In Taiwan people do this more, in our Japan offices less so but still done sometimes. We send students out from Taiwan/ Japan and travel agents we use have high mark up , so students will ask for discounts and sometimes travel agent does lower the price (in our Kaoshiung office tower there are 10+ travel agents, and in our Fukuoka office there are many in a few min. walk so if someone wanted price shop they could).
Last edited by tcook052; Jun 4, 2019 at 9:02 pm Reason: Off topic posting
#100
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Having said that, its basically my position that AC should eat this for having such a crappy fraud department, and consider upgrading their systems and processes in such a way to avoid future incidents. AC's spreadsheet finance monkeys perhaps can derive an IRR or NPV based on investing in better systems or leaving the status quo. I suspect if it goes to the CTA, they will scold AC accordingly for not intervening after the first incident, and then rule that their ability to deny travel is not contingent on the resolution of prior commercial disputes which can and should be properly adjudicated in the courts by way of a civil legal action brought against her and/or the so-called "agent" non-agent who offered her a confirmed reservation.
Last edited by pitz; Jun 4, 2019 at 9:07 pm
#101
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Folks, I've made a few post deletions and edits as the flyer and her personal vocation or immigration status are all irrelevant to the discussion so let's please stick to matters as they relate to AC.
tcook052
AC forum mod.
tcook052
AC forum mod.
#102
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Based on the image in the OP, it appears to be an official account, definitely not a group chat.
#103
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But, something was happening that obviously AC had to stop. What action would have been more appropriate? "Excuse me, we happened to notice that a number of tickets you've booked were on random cards, and many of them have been returned by issuer. Carry on and, in future, can you TRY to pay..."
If I own a restaurant and have a frequent diner's charges clawed back from me, am I not right to refuse further service unless this person makes good on prior debts? Trick is, if I'm the only source of food in a given market...competition laws, TS bid, etc...
Btw nothing in the article says she's being sued, just that AC wants their money for past services rendered. And they're even willing to resume flying her if she does!
Now, what is stupid, is apparently some AC legal rep said something about trusting wechat like one trusts a drunk Canuck in a bar? Bad move. Basically could be interpreted as a social media platform used by "those people" is less trustworthy that the ones "we people" pay to advertise on...
You'd think "legal" would know not to say stupid stuff like that. There was no need to defend the action with additional comment. Add to that the current Canada v China climate... Why fan the flames?
#104
Join Date: Sep 2016
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I love how many are saying she knew that she was purchasing tickets that were fraudulent without any evidence backing it out.
Furthermore, I am sure most commenting on this thread has never used WeChat before. In fact, it is very common to buy stuff on WeChat and lots of the time it is legit. Thus, I can see why this girl, an international student from China could feel this is legit way of buying airline tickets. Therefore, you can call her naive, gullible, dumb or whatever other synonym you can think of but to call her complicit in this fraud is a stretch without further information.
Furthermore, I am sure most commenting on this thread has never used WeChat before. In fact, it is very common to buy stuff on WeChat and lots of the time it is legit. Thus, I can see why this girl, an international student from China could feel this is legit way of buying airline tickets. Therefore, you can call her naive, gullible, dumb or whatever other synonym you can think of but to call her complicit in this fraud is a stretch without further information.
#105
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could be a crooked travel agency in the middle of this too.
They book tickets, handle airline communications, delay, obscure...they roll it all up and leave AC holding the bag.
Just because most people here are DIYers doing business on <airline>.com, people seem to be thinking about this in terms of how THEY buy tickets and interact with an airline..... For example- A ticket that was purchased on ANY airline VIA A TRAVEL AGENT will not trigger the airline asking to see the CC used. Other aspects that complicated pieces we cannot see can be at play here as well.....
Having said this...what if she bought a PROPERLY PRICED ticket from a crooked agency- agency booked the ticket, pocketed the money and never paid AC for the ticket. She flies, but AC never gets paid. Would AC come after her for this fraudulent ticket price?
They book tickets, handle airline communications, delay, obscure...they roll it all up and leave AC holding the bag.
Just because most people here are DIYers doing business on <airline>.com, people seem to be thinking about this in terms of how THEY buy tickets and interact with an airline..... For example- A ticket that was purchased on ANY airline VIA A TRAVEL AGENT will not trigger the airline asking to see the CC used. Other aspects that complicated pieces we cannot see can be at play here as well.....
Having said this...what if she bought a PROPERLY PRICED ticket from a crooked agency- agency booked the ticket, pocketed the money and never paid AC for the ticket. She flies, but AC never gets paid. Would AC come after her for this fraudulent ticket price?