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AC imposes 'no fly' ban, demands $18K from woman after ticket scam

AC imposes 'no fly' ban, demands $18K from woman after ticket scam

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Old Jun 4, 19, 9:35 pm
  #106  
 
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Originally Posted by DrunkCargo View Post
Now, what is stupid, is apparently some AC legal rep said something about trusting wechat like one trusts a drunk Canuck in a bar? Bad move. Basically could be interpreted as a social media platform used by "those people" is less trustworthy that the ones "we people" pay to advertise on...

You'd think "legal" would know not to say stupid stuff like that. There was no need to defend the action with additional comment. Add to that the current Canada v China climate... Why fan the flames?
@DrunkCargo I suspect you're mistaken ... AC "legal" employs only the very sharpest knives in the legal kitchen ... no dull blades there.

They are right every time. Well, kinda.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 9:48 pm
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Exec_Plat View Post
could be a crooked travel agency in the middle of this too.
No indication of that in the linked article so that seems a bit of a reach in MHO as a poster.

I can't but find the cover story of 'employee pricing' on business class seats ironic given the number of flyers on these pages who have over the years alleged staff is upgraded ahead of elites.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 10:13 pm
  #108  
 
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It's much easier to feign innocence when you're ostensibly a student trying to get home. I wouldn't be so sure.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 10:31 pm
  #109  
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Originally Posted by sunzi View Post
I love how many are saying she knew that she was purchasing tickets that were fraudulent without any evidence backing it out.

Furthermore, I am sure most commenting on this thread has never used WeChat before. In fact, it is very common to buy stuff on WeChat and lots of the time it is legit. Thus, I can see why this girl, an international student from China could feel this is legit way of buying airline tickets. Therefore, you can call her naive, gullible, dumb or whatever other synonym you can think of but to call her complicit in this fraud is a stretch without further information.
Sorry, I've actually seen people posting about CaptainCooll on my Wechat moments years ago where they boasted about how they bought business class tickets for 50% off and successfully flew. Yes, you can buy things on Wechat, many brands, retailers, travel agencies have official presences on Wechat, and you can pay with Wechat wallet. But there are also many unofficial resellers of goods and services that do not have business licenses, physical presence or any other verification other than word of mouth, so caveat emptor. There are some that are do legitimate business but there are also many news articles from China about consumers being scammed by these unofficial resellers, including airfare scams. If I had to guess, the woman probably did a Wechat personal transfer to the account, similar to sending an interac etransfer, but unlike e-transfer that's tied to a bank account, oversea Wechat wallets do not have mandatory ID verification nor are they tied to a Chinese mobile number that requires ID verification. Scams like this has been going on for many years, other examples include discount Uber rides, utilities, school tuitions, and gas cards where you transfer cash via Wechat and they pay on your behalf using stolen credit cards. It is difficult to believe that a 25 year old would not have read about these scams. People who buy these are complicit in that they enable these scammers by providing ways for them to cash out on stolen credit card info.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 10:43 pm
  #110  
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Originally Posted by m.y View Post
Sorry, I've actually seen people posting about CaptainCooll on my Wechat moments years ago where they boasted about how they bought business class tickets for 50% off and successfully flew.
Assuming the account is verified, and most people would never buy anything of substance from an unverified OA, then it passed muster with Tencent at some point in time (their review process is semi-stringent).

It's extremely easy to check this:
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Old Jun 4, 19, 10:56 pm
  #111  
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Originally Posted by moondog View Post
Assuming the account is verified, and most people would never buy anything of substance from an unverified OA, then it passed muster with Tencent at some point in time (their review process is semi-stringent).
Many of these resellers (including legitimate ones) use personal accounts with no verification, I could go update the information my account and claim to be a travel agent offering discount airfare right now.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 10:59 pm
  #112  
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Originally Posted by m.y View Post
Many of these resellers (including legitimate ones) use personal accounts with no verification, I could go update the information my account and claim to be a travel agent offering discount airfare right now.
All that I know of have OAs and/or MiniPrograms, but the ones that aren't verified get minimal business. In any event, the image in the OP's article is almost certainly an OA, though it's impossible to tell whether or not it's verified from the image.
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Old Jun 4, 19, 11:59 pm
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Collierkr View Post
Címon. If anyone from any country thinks buying plane tickets on Wechat is legit then they havenít Educated themselves in the business of air travel. I am simply not buying this.
Are you kidding? Almost all airlines and large TAs distribute tickets via Wechat.
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Old Jun 5, 19, 12:14 am
  #114  
 
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Originally Posted by moondog View Post
Are you kidding? Almost all airlines and large TAs distribute tickets via Wechat.
But they don't sell on WeChat.
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Old Jun 5, 19, 12:51 am
  #115  
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Originally Posted by DragonSoul View Post
But they don't sell on WeChat.
I realize that not all airlines flying to/within China sell on WeChat, but I suspect those that don't are in the minority.

Insofar as travel agencies go, I know that both Ctrip and Agoda do. I honestly don't have recent experience with many others.
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Old Jun 5, 19, 2:19 am
  #116  
 
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Originally Posted by moondog View Post
I realize that not all airlines flying to/within China sell on WeChat, but I suspect those that don't are in the minority.

Insofar as travel agencies go, I know that both Ctrip and Agoda do. I honestly don't have recent experience with many others.
If Ctrip and Agoda are legitimate WeChat business names then why not MrCool. We live in a world today where business try to be friendly online, so I think the name is not that unusual.

The issue here is she paid money for her ticket. She is not profiting from crime. If AC was on the ball they should have gone to her and said: "We don't want people selling our tickets on Wechat by taking the money of our customers and paying us with stolen credit cards. We want you to help us catch this person."

They should be able to follow the financial trail of where here money went. That the person they need to go after.
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Old Jun 5, 19, 2:55 am
  #117  
 
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Originally Posted by Fiordland View Post
If Ctrip and Agoda are legitimate WeChat business names then why not MrCool. We live in a world today where business try to be friendly online, so I think the name is not that unusual.

The issue here is she paid money for her ticket. She is not profiting from crime. If AC was on the ball they should have gone to her and said: "We don't want people selling our tickets on Wechat by taking the money of our customers and paying us with stolen credit cards. We want you to help us catch this person."

They should be able to follow the financial trail of where here money went. That the person they need to go after.
Not sure if it’s that clear cut.

Good faith regulations vary widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and I’m not sure which regulations apply here (depending on the exact circumstances it could even be argued that the transaction took part in China).

Can it be convincingly argued that the traveler believed to have purchased the ticket in good faith? With the arguments above about the prevalence of WeChat purchases in China and the fact that employee pricing is made available to customers in other industries that can certainly be argued. If they could identify the reseller he would definately be primarily responsible but I would not discount the chance that the coustomer would be found liable if the reseller could not be identified or is unwilling / unable to pay.


I assume even Air Canada isn’t quite sure that the customer is legally responsible for the fare – which is why they haven’t sued her and “only” blocked her from taking further flights with Air Canada.
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Old Jun 5, 19, 3:42 am
  #118  
 
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Originally Posted by pitz View Post
Does AC have a list, on their website, where individuals can verify whether or not an organization, individual, or entity acts in agency for AC?

I mean, we have literally hundreds, actually thousands of entities that claim the ability to enter into and bind AC to contracts. But just how am I, Joe Consumer, supposed to verify that XYZ is actually truly acting as an agent of AC?

I don't see an "Agent Lookup" on AC's website. AC's case that these tickets were purchased from an entity that had no authority to bind AC to a contract would be bolstered if AC actually made it public just who is authorized, aside from AC employees, to act in agency for AC.
Obviously there is no such list. It would be a staggering list size if it covered agents in the whole world.

Most people with a clue buy direct from airlines or legitimate travel agencies that have some kind of consumer protection based on their country/province/state of residence.
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Old Jun 5, 19, 4:06 am
  #119  
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Originally Posted by mapleg View Post
Most people with a clue buy direct from airlines or legitimate travel agencies that have some kind of consumer protection based on their country/province/state of residence.
This might be your opinion, but to me, saving thousands of dollars by buying bulk fares from bucket shops well justifies a bit of calculated risk.
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Old Jun 5, 19, 8:15 am
  #120  
 
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Originally Posted by m.y View Post
Sorry, I've actually seen people posting about CaptainCooll on my Wechat moments years ago where they boasted about how they bought business class tickets for 50% off and successfully flew. Yes, you can buy things on Wechat, many brands, retailers, travel agencies have official presences on Wechat, and you can pay with Wechat wallet. But there are also many unofficial resellers of goods and services that do not have business licenses, physical presence or any other verification other than word of mouth, so caveat emptor. There are some that are do legitimate business but there are also many news articles from China about consumers being scammed by these unofficial resellers, including airfare scams. If I had to guess, the woman probably did a Wechat personal transfer to the account, similar to sending an interac etransfer, but unlike e-transfer that's tied to a bank account, oversea Wechat wallets do not have mandatory ID verification nor are they tied to a Chinese mobile number that requires ID verification. Scams like this has been going on for many years, other examples include discount Uber rides, utilities, school tuitions, and gas cards where you transfer cash via Wechat and they pay on your behalf using stolen credit cards. It is difficult to believe that a 25 year old would not have read about these scams. People who buy these are complicit in that they enable these scammers by providing ways for them to cash out on stolen credit card info.
Again, you are making an assumption that she knew this was a scam. People read about scams all the time. It's in the newspaper, on the internet, on the radio, on tv but people still fall for it. Everyone is different. Not everyone has the same level of due diligence. Just because you might be very careful doesn't mean everyone else is like you.

Without further information, I am not going to just assign guilt to her.
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