Booking class for Air Miles award on WS
Jul 12, 2003, 8:35 am
#2
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Kingston, Ont, the limestone city
Posts: 975
Does it matter? Westjet does not have a FF program or a business class. So you get the same seat with no miles regardless of fare class.
If I'm not mistaken, reward tickets need to be changed by the issuing company. So you will need to go through AirMiles. Same thing with TravelCuts tickets... Airlines will avoid dealing with this kind of tickets like plague.
If I'm not mistaken, reward tickets need to be changed by the issuing company. So you will need to go through AirMiles. Same thing with TravelCuts tickets... Airlines will avoid dealing with this kind of tickets like plague.
Jul 12, 2003, 9:14 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,125
I'd like to check award availability on WS using ITN and compare it to Aeroplan. Even though you earn fewer Air Miles with WestJet than Aeroplan points on Air Canada, WestJet might be offering a better deal.
For example, I would earn 1050 Aeroplan points flying YOW-YWG-YOW. At $480 return, I would also earn 480 RBC miles on my Avion card and an extra 160 Aeroplan points from aircanada.com. RBC and Aeroplan points have similar values (in terms of the number you need to travel a certain distance), so that gives a total of 1690 points.
With the current WestJet promotions, I would get 960 RBC miles and 48 Air Miles for the same ticket. Again looking at how many points you need to fly somewhere, Air Miles seem to be worth about 8x what Aeroplan points are. Using this conversion, I get 960+384=1344 points, which is only 346 fewer points than what I get on Air Canada.
Now if I can actually book a seat with those Air Miles, WestJet is a better option for me. (In the past, I've nearly always used my Aeroplan point for domestic economy awards.)
For example, I would earn 1050 Aeroplan points flying YOW-YWG-YOW. At $480 return, I would also earn 480 RBC miles on my Avion card and an extra 160 Aeroplan points from aircanada.com. RBC and Aeroplan points have similar values (in terms of the number you need to travel a certain distance), so that gives a total of 1690 points.
With the current WestJet promotions, I would get 960 RBC miles and 48 Air Miles for the same ticket. Again looking at how many points you need to fly somewhere, Air Miles seem to be worth about 8x what Aeroplan points are. Using this conversion, I get 960+384=1344 points, which is only 346 fewer points than what I get on Air Canada.
Now if I can actually book a seat with those Air Miles, WestJet is a better option for me. (In the past, I've nearly always used my Aeroplan point for domestic economy awards.)
Jul 12, 2003, 9:27 am
#4
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Award availability is not really an issue with Air Miles and West Jet, or AC, NW or any carrier you use AMs for. These seats are bought out of regular inventory. I don't know what fare codes WestJet normally offers, but my understanding is that the only restrictions with AM redemptions is that you must book 14-days in advance and stay over a Saturday night. And pay any taxes or fees yourself. No changes or standby are permitted.
As for the rest of your new post, you have lost me. A ticket on WestJet is about 1000 AMs, which can be earned in a variety of ways: $20,000 worth of charges on an Amex or BM MasterCard AM card. If you earn about 48 AMs from a $480 trip on WestJet, it would take over 20 such trips to earn an award trip on airline bookings alone. Fewer trips if you were collecting AMs from other sources.
Assuming YOW-YWG-YOW is about 1,000 miles, travel on AC would earn 1,000 Aeroplan miles from a discount fare. Aside from Aeroplan miles earned from other sources, this would require 15 trips for a short haul award, which this is. Yes, availability is more problematic with Aeroplan, but there are less restrictions than an AM ticket on either WestJet or AC.
At least that's my assessment.
As for the rest of your new post, you have lost me. A ticket on WestJet is about 1000 AMs, which can be earned in a variety of ways: $20,000 worth of charges on an Amex or BM MasterCard AM card. If you earn about 48 AMs from a $480 trip on WestJet, it would take over 20 such trips to earn an award trip on airline bookings alone. Fewer trips if you were collecting AMs from other sources.
Assuming YOW-YWG-YOW is about 1,000 miles, travel on AC would earn 1,000 Aeroplan miles from a discount fare. Aside from Aeroplan miles earned from other sources, this would require 15 trips for a short haul award, which this is. Yes, availability is more problematic with Aeroplan, but there are less restrictions than an AM ticket on either WestJet or AC.
At least that's my assessment.
Jul 12, 2003, 9:45 am
#5
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,987
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Shareholder:
Yes, availability is more problematic with Aeroplan</font>
Yes, availability is more problematic with Aeroplan</font>
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Saturday nights should be spent with family.
Jul 12, 2003, 9:54 am
#6
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Tractor Boy:
"Aeroplan: The reward program with no available rewards (toasters excepted)"
</font>
"Aeroplan: The reward program with no available rewards (toasters excepted)"
</font>
Jul 12, 2003, 10:29 am
#7
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I hadn't visited the new Aeroplan booking engine until a few minutes ago. I wanted to find out how difficult it would be to get seats from YOW to YWG this summer. So I plugged in the dates, departing next week, returning a few days later.
Was able to get 2 seats on the 18th at 6:30am, non-stop, with a return on the 22nd at 7:30pm connecting at YYZ and arriving at 12:52am. While there were no dates shown as available for much of the balance of the month, I did find the "Availability Bar" useful in seeing which alternative dates might be available.
Looking further out, into the fall, and lots of dates were available, so putting Aeroplan down for not having seats at the height of summer family travel time, a few weeks prior to desired travel date, is an unfare expectation when it is clear there are limited seats at peak travel times.
And from my calculation, I guess you could argue that instant KK is available from AM redemptions -- provided you book 14-days in advance and stay Saturday -- for the equivilent of 50% more "spend/accumulation" rather than the 100% an Elite would need. And of course, Prestige and basic members would have not access to KKs.
Was able to get 2 seats on the 18th at 6:30am, non-stop, with a return on the 22nd at 7:30pm connecting at YYZ and arriving at 12:52am. While there were no dates shown as available for much of the balance of the month, I did find the "Availability Bar" useful in seeing which alternative dates might be available.
Looking further out, into the fall, and lots of dates were available, so putting Aeroplan down for not having seats at the height of summer family travel time, a few weeks prior to desired travel date, is an unfare expectation when it is clear there are limited seats at peak travel times.
And from my calculation, I guess you could argue that instant KK is available from AM redemptions -- provided you book 14-days in advance and stay Saturday -- for the equivilent of 50% more "spend/accumulation" rather than the 100% an Elite would need. And of course, Prestige and basic members would have not access to KKs.
Jul 12, 2003, 10:58 am
#8
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,987
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Shareholder:
And of course, Prestige and basic members would have not access to KKs.</font>
And of course, Prestige and basic members would have not access to KKs.</font>
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Saturday nights should be spent with family.
Jul 12, 2003, 11:33 am
#9
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I am still puzzled by the vast gap between people here and their cynicism towards Aeroplan, and the fact that every bank and financial institution in the country has been battling to get a piece of that action.
As for instant KK, I still prefer AC's approach because it benefits its best customers to award seat access. And the whole idea of FF programs is to give something to those who fly the airline the most. Why should those who fly less, or not at all, have the same access to seats as true FFers? This is about revarding customer loyalty, and use of their product, and not just accumulating miles through credit cards, etc.
So while it appears everyone *****es about watering Aeroplan down, they also complain when it tries to preserve certain benefits, and particularly reward seat access, for those who fly. Sure, maybe instant KK should be 150% rather than 200% for Elites, and maybe Prestiges should be let in on it too. But Americans have not embraced "miles collecting" with the same gusto Canadians have, and thus make less demand for seats than do Canadians. Even with the wide open KK redemption.
As for instant KK, I still prefer AC's approach because it benefits its best customers to award seat access. And the whole idea of FF programs is to give something to those who fly the airline the most. Why should those who fly less, or not at all, have the same access to seats as true FFers? This is about revarding customer loyalty, and use of their product, and not just accumulating miles through credit cards, etc.
So while it appears everyone *****es about watering Aeroplan down, they also complain when it tries to preserve certain benefits, and particularly reward seat access, for those who fly. Sure, maybe instant KK should be 150% rather than 200% for Elites, and maybe Prestiges should be let in on it too. But Americans have not embraced "miles collecting" with the same gusto Canadians have, and thus make less demand for seats than do Canadians. Even with the wide open KK redemption.
Jul 12, 2003, 11:37 am
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,125
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Shareholder:
Award availability is not really an issue with Air Miles and West Jet, or AC, NW or any carrier you use AMs for. These seats are bought out of regular inventory.</font>
Award availability is not really an issue with Air Miles and West Jet, or AC, NW or any carrier you use AMs for. These seats are bought out of regular inventory.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
If you earn about 48 AMs from a $480 trip on WestJet, it would take over 20 such trips to earn an award trip on airline bookings alone. ...
Aside from Aeroplan miles earned from other sources, this would require 15 trips for a short haul award, which this is. Yes, availability is more problematic with Aeroplan, but there are less restrictions than an AM ticket on either WestJet or AC.
If you earn about 48 AMs from a $480 trip on WestJet, it would take over 20 such trips to earn an award trip on airline bookings alone. ...
Aside from Aeroplan miles earned from other sources, this would require 15 trips for a short haul award, which this is. Yes, availability is more problematic with Aeroplan, but there are less restrictions than an AM ticket on either WestJet or AC.
</font>
I know Air Miles isn't a frequent flier programme, but since I no longer care about status, the Air Miles option and WestJet appears to be a reasonable deal.
So, does anyone know which booking class WS uses for Air Miles?
Jul 12, 2003, 11:50 am
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,125
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Shareholder:
Why should those who fly less, or not at all, have the same access to seats as true FFers? This is about revarding customer loyalty, and use of their product, and not just accumulating miles through credit cards, etc.
</font>
Why should those who fly less, or not at all, have the same access to seats as true FFers? This is about revarding customer loyalty, and use of their product, and not just accumulating miles through credit cards, etc.
</font>
sometimes on AC, sometimes on a competitor. Sure, some of these trips were during peak holiday times and I don't expect a ticket then. But other trips were booked well in advance in the low season. If I can't use them, the points are useless to me, which is why I'm looking at Air Miles.
Jul 12, 2003, 12:11 pm
#12
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,987
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Shareholder:
As for instant KK, I still prefer AC's approach because it benefits its best customers to award seat access. </font>
As for instant KK, I still prefer AC's approach because it benefits its best customers to award seat access. </font>
As an AC Elite I don't have access to the front cabin with instant KK, and AC still has black-outs for Elites. A basic member with UA, NW or AA doesn't have these issues. How exactly is AC treating its Elite members so well?
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Saturday nights should be spent with family.
Jul 12, 2003, 12:52 pm
#13
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Not sure how it got posted a second time.
[This message has been edited by Shareholder (edited 07-13-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Shareholder (edited 07-13-2003).]
Jul 12, 2003, 1:50 pm
#14
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,987
SH: You've repeated your post. Don't know if this is a mistake or if you felt the need to say it again 
Reading it again I just wanted to add a note - you talk about AC's "wide open instant KK redemption" - my problem with Aeroplan is that it isn't wide open - no front cabin access plus black-outs. I get better seat availability as a basic member of AA, UA etc than as an AC Elite.
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Saturday nights should be spent with family.
Reading it again I just wanted to add a note - you talk about AC's "wide open instant KK redemption" - my problem with Aeroplan is that it isn't wide open - no front cabin access plus black-outs. I get better seat availability as a basic member of AA, UA etc than as an AC Elite.
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Saturday nights should be spent with family.