lsquare

I've never flown AC to China before. Saw YVR-PVG for C$605 return on a 787 in Y. I think I should get at least 50% EQM with OZ since it's L-fare. It's even cheaper than flying to PEK (not sure why that's the case considering PEK is closer to YVR). I decided to give it a try. My only complaint is the timing. I wish it leaves YVR a little earlier and PVG a little later so that I can get more time in PVG. Anyone here surprised how cheap the fares are to PVG at the moment?

24left

Um, do you read the news?
Have you seen the thread on this forum about potential risks for those flying to China?
Do you see the many different Chinese and other Asian carriers at YVR, all offering various competitive fares to China and Asia via China?
Have you been on Aeroplan and seen many Asian/SE Asian routes that offer connections on AC to PVG?
So many reasons, alone or in combination can affect fares to some destinations.

Transpacificflyer

LOL. As of March, all my TPAC connections have been anything other than mainland China and my oh my what a positive change. AC hasn't released its results for its China routes, but I do not think they are doing too well. As already pointed out, the routes are cut throat competitive. The Y class PRC pax prefer their own carriers and non PRC Y class go to the cheapest carrier. IMO AC is getting slapped about on the China routes despite the lofty descriptions offered by he C suite. Besides, Canadians with common sense steer clear of China due to its anti Canada political stance and its current incarceration of Canadian nationals who have been denied basic legal access to consular officials. Keep that in mind if you get into trouble in China - You are on your own and the Canadian government cannot help you.

lsquare

I didn't create this thread with the intention of injecting politics into this. I was just thinking out loud cuz I usually see such pricing with the Chinese carriers and not with AC.

moondog

China routes have been a blood bath for the past 2 years because everyone is trying to get a seat at the table, in anticipation of future demand.

Transpacificflyer

There were no politics in my response. It was a statement of fact. Fewer Canadians are flying to China because of the current situation, This has resulted in a reduced demand for seats from Canadians. The Chinese government has released multiple statements and presentations through state media which have given a negative image of Canada which in turn has reduced the demand of Chinese to visit Canada. In addition, Chinese carriers regularly undercut North American airfares on the mainland routes. This has forced the North American carriers to reduce their airfares. When the Gulf carriers offered competitive airfares they were accused of predatory pricing and abusive state subsidies. In the case of the . mainland China routes, not a negative comment is made, with the result that Air Canada pax on other routes must subsidize the ongoing losses on the mainland China routes. This is why the airfares are so low.

24left

IMHO, this is China and politics are part of the equation as noted by @Transpacificflyer

Economics and math matter because

Another example would be the AC YVR-HKG route. As was discussed on this forum, AC flew the 777-300ER (450 pax edition) for years. Last fall, they switched to the B789. Quite the difference. They are switching back April 1, but to have made that change in the first place seemed to have indicated to many that CX and the PRC airlines and even non-Chinese carriers were eating some of AC's lunch. Who knows. But it all matters in combination.

moondog

The Sichuan Airlines flight from YVR to SHE, with connections to pretty much every important market in China has a lot to do with AC's pricing woes. The same goes for CZ's LAX-SHE flight; now that CZ isn't part of an alliance, they are free to set prices as low as they need to fill their planes.

24left

Interesting numbers for AC to PVG

April 2
YVR AC 25 - J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 R9 O9 E9 N9 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 G0 S9 T9 L9 A0 K0
YUL AC 11 - J9 C7 D7 Z6 P5 R9 O9 E9 N9 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 G0 S9 T9 L9 A0 K0
YYZ AC 27 - J9 C4 D4 Z2 P0 R9 O9 E9 N9 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 G0 S9 T9 L9 A0 K0


April 3
AC 25 - J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 R9 O9 E9 N9 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 G0 S9 T9 L9 A0 K0
AC 11 - J9 C9 D9 Z8 P7 R9 O9 E9 N9 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 G0 S9 T9 L9 A0 K0
AC 27 - J9 C9 D9 Z6 P5 R7 O9 E9 N9 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 G0 S9 T9 L9 A0 K0

And yes, it's a small sample of 2 dates next week on 3 routes for a total of 6 flights....or maybe EF is broken.
.

CZAMFlyer

I for one am happy to see a drop in demand between Canada and China. It might allow a few airports experiencing levels of crazy-growth to turn down the temperature of expansion demand and take a needed breather.

I think that people who cower at reports of increased risk traveling to mainland China are offset by those who recognize that the circumstances and pure odds of experiencing any sort of targeted trouble are so remote that it's a great chance to capitalize on some bargain airfares and perhaps even a less-crushed experience once there.

lsquare

I think there is a bit of fearmongering going around. Yes, Sino-Canadian relations are bad, but I just find it hard that they're going to just arbitrarily arrest anyone going to China. What does the Chinese government gain by arresting you and me if we arrive in PVG tomorrow? Are we prominent individuals? I think given the news coverage, it's not likely the Chinese government will just randomly target foreigners and jail them for no apparent reason. Pretty sure tourism in China will dip even further if that happens .

DragonSoul

Also Canada stopped its investment visa a few years back as it was so backlogged with Chinese seeking to emigrate (which pissed China off immensely). And often, once they get their new passport, they go back to China. Fewer Chinese travelling to Canada to settle, 2nd/3rd generations less connected with the motherland, and fewer Chinese-Canadians going back and forth. Enjoy the chance of a cheaper ticket.

Transpacificflyer

It is not just the YVR routes, but YUL-PVG as well.. It was almost as if it was a placeholder strategy, albeit a part of the JV with Air China. If one picks random dates in June, Air China can offer deep discounts seats anywhere from $900 (or less with designated TAs) vs. AC's deep discount at $1200. That's a hefty price difference in Y. Both airlines have to pay the same basic costs for aircraft purchase, catering, fuel, landing and overflight etc. The small difference due to labour costs, isn't that much in the overall picture. I doubt that Air China is making a profit on this route either and it is a reasonable conclusion that the state is supporting the airline, while the saps in Canada's hinterland pay inflated airfares to cover AC's losses here.

Plumber

[QUOTE=Transpacificflyer;30941539] Fewer Canadians are flying to China because of the current situation, This has resulted in a reduced demand for seats from Canadians. /QUOTE]
I was flying to and/or though China regularly.

Mrs. Plumber says 'no way' to me flying to or through China at the moment.

lsquare

Was the Chinese government pissed off about that? I I thought it was the backlogged wealthy Chinese that decided to lawyer up and sue Canada over the cancellation of that program. Even before the Meng Wanzhou arrest, I could easily go to PEK and PVG for C$500-$700 with the Chinese carriers. It's with AC that caught my attention. I can't recalled ever seeing prices this low going to the Mainland. It's even cheaper if you go further inland, but that requires flying with CA after AC drops me off in PEK.