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Very angry with both AMEX and Air Canada

Very angry with both AMEX and Air Canada

Old Mar 7, 2019, 8:28 am
  #31  
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FYI for those with Amex charge cards, if you use the 'check spending power' tool online and check the amount you will be putting through (so I would have put $1500 in OP case), that amount should not be flagged as fraudulent when it goes through (assuming everything else is legitimate about merchant, as it was in this case). Also fun to see how high you can go!
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Old Mar 7, 2019, 8:30 am
  #32  
 
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I don't think that either the OP or Amex is to blame here -- just very unfortunate circumstances. I have a hard time blaming Amex, as when you purchase something from a credit/charge card, you're effectively saying, "Amex, may I borrow $$$ for this purchase?". If someone came to me asking to borrow money, I would sure as heck say no if I wasn't sure that that person was who I thought they were, and if I thought that I was at risk of losing that money. FYI, there is a function on the Amex web site to pre-approve transactions on the Platinum charge card (a function that's needed because of the lack of a preset limit), but I'm not sure if it would have prevented this situation as it wasn't a refusal due to Amex not extending credit, but due to security.

If I were to blame anybody, I'd blame AC. You'd think they'd be able to make an exception given the circumstances and try to put the charge through again -- especially if those seats haven't been given away already to other bidders.
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Old Mar 7, 2019, 8:46 am
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by SuperCargo
If I were to blame anybody, I'd blame AC. You'd think they'd be able to make an exception given the circumstances and try to put the charge through again -- especially if those seats haven't been given away already to other bidders.
I don't see why it would be AC's fault. It's an automated process with a third party company (you'll note AC isn't the company placing the charge, it's Plusgrade). I'm assuming an initial winner email is sent out.... then the charge is made and then a confirmation email.... (never having done this) if the charge fails, send the failed email and move onto the next winner. Whole process probably takes 5 seconds per passenger. Considering the number of companies and flights Plusgrade works with, this would not be an unreasonable assumption. The whole process would be out of AC's control. By the time the OP made the call to AC all the upgrades would have been processed and assigned.
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Old Mar 7, 2019, 8:51 am
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by StuckInYYZ
I don't see why it would be AC's fault. It's an automated process with a third party company (you'll note AC isn't the company placing the charge, it's Plusgrade). I'm assuming an initial winner email is sent out.... then the charge is made and then a confirmation email.... (never having done this) if the charge fails, send the failed email and move onto the next winner. Whole process probably takes 5 seconds per passenger. Considering the number of companies and flights Plusgrade works with, this would not be an unreasonable assumption. The whole process would be out of AC's control. By the time the OP made the call to AC all the upgrades would have been processed and assigned.
I see your point, but that's why I said "especially if those seats haven't been given away already to other bidders". I think the OP said that the flight is still showing J9. If there are still lots of seats free, I don't see why AC couldn't just process it manually on an exceptional basis given the circumstances.
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Old Mar 7, 2019, 8:55 am
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Redwood839
I agree with what others have said about calling before hand and letting them know about a large charge coming in.
$1370 is large? I'm not calling every time I want to put 4 figures on my card.

My ~$5k transactions always seem to go through just fine (though I had to call once recently for a flight - maybe because I was booking it while in YYZ, rather than at home?).

Meanwhile, I get blocked on $20 transactions every now and then.

It's not the size that matters.
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Old Mar 7, 2019, 8:56 am
  #36  
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Originally Posted by SuperCargo
I see your point, but that's why I said "especially if those seats haven't been given away already to other bidders". I think the OP said that the flight is still showing J9. If there are still lots of seats free, I don't see why AC couldn't just process it manually on an exceptional basis given the circumstances.
At the very least one can blame AC for using plusgrade... BTW my similar experience was also with plusgrade. A few years go. So it would seem Amex is in the habit of denying plusgrade charges. Why? (But again that does not serve as an excuse for Amex to deny a legitimate charge.)
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Old Mar 7, 2019, 8:57 am
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by StuckInYYZ
I don't see why it would be AC's fault. It's an automated process with a third party company (you'll note AC isn't the company placing the charge, it's Plusgrade). I'm assuming an initial winner email is sent out.... then the charge is made and then a confirmation email.... (never having done this) if the charge fails, send the failed email and move onto the next winner. Whole process probably takes 5 seconds per passenger. Considering the number of companies and flights Plusgrade works with, this would not be an unreasonable assumption. The whole process would be out of AC's control. By the time the OP made the call to AC all the upgrades would have been processed and assigned.
Just to offer some firsthand experience on the bolded bit: I've successfully bid on upgrades a handful of times, and in every instance, I received a notification from my Amex app of the Plusgrade charge going through hours before receiving any notification whatsoever from Plusgrade that my bid was successful.
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Old Mar 7, 2019, 9:00 am
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by SuperCargo
I see your point, but that's why I said "especially if those seats haven't been given away already to other bidders". I think the OP said that the flight is still showing J9. If there are still lots of seats free, I don't see why AC couldn't just process it manually on an exceptional basis given the circumstances.
I would not depend on how many seats are free unless upgrades are processed from the J bucket. AC would designate a certain number of seats as Plusgrade eligible. Keep a few more for last minute purchases and then LMU a few more. They don't necessarily have to fill every seat.before leaving. (Many airlines do this)

As has been said here many times in the past, the only way to guarantee a seat in J is to actually purchase it outright. If you don't, it's a "you pays your money and takes your chances" type gamble. It might be harsh to hear (and I do feel for the OP), but it's a fact.
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Old Mar 7, 2019, 9:07 am
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by ffsim
Just to offer some firsthand experience on the bolded bit: I've successfully bid on upgrades a handful of times, and in every instance, I received a notification from my Amex app of the Plusgrade charge going through hours before receiving any notification whatsoever from Plusgrade that my bid was successful.
Thanks. I see that sometimes with purchases made from a few online retailers.... mostly 15-20 minutes after the charge, but a few hours once before. Not sure if it's a quirk with their mail servers or not. Can't blame AC for that one either.

Then there are the credit card emails I get before the cashier in front of me can print my receipt...
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Old Mar 7, 2019, 9:08 am
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by Gadot
They have increased their fraud protection. If it is not something you normally charge, it will be labeled as a fraud. It is for your protection. You simply have to call and tell them that those charges (in the future) are ok. All major cards are now computer protected
I understand it is for THEIR protection (not for your protection). Credit card companies bear the cost of fraud.

Personally, I can't imagine every way the credit card algorithm may work and might flag a transaction as "unusual and possible fraudulent". Therefore, I don't always know when to "simply have to call and tell them... (in advance)"

I want an immediate verification and not get a sale/transaction cancelled.
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Old Mar 7, 2019, 9:11 am
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by PaperGlider
I understand it is for THEIR protection (not for your protection). Credit card companies bear the cost of fraud.

Personally, I can't imagine every way the credit card algorithm may work and might flag a transaction as "unusual and possible fraudulent". Therefore, I don't always know when to "simply have to call and tell them... (in advance)"

I want an immediate verification and not get a sale/transaction cancelled.
I'm surprised it took 39 posts for this to be said.

Yes, businesses (including credit card companies) are only out to look after themselves.
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Old Mar 7, 2019, 9:13 am
  #42  
 
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Its not about large charges. Or about predicting which charges will be denied. As cow correctly noted, its not the size that matters.

All Im saying is that if you know you have a charge coming up and you need it to go through, then you should give them a heads up to strengthen your odds. Thats all.

Assigning blame in this situation is an exercise in futility IMO

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Old Mar 7, 2019, 9:43 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by PaperGlider
I understand it is for THEIR protection (not for your protection). Credit card companies bear the cost of fraud.
More often than not it is actually the merchant.
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Old Mar 7, 2019, 9:45 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by yyckerr


Assigning blame in this situation is an exercise in futility IMO

Assigning blame would make sense in that the onus should be on whoever is to blame to implement a remedy. But yes, I know, not going to happen until someone goes to court or something like that...
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Old Mar 7, 2019, 11:41 am
  #45  
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One thing I keep seeing is people saying that this is not a "normal charge for me". Sure, this is my first time using Plusgrade, but every month for the past few months I've had upgrade charges around the same cost. This is why I'm angry with both: AC (which is now showing J6 on the flight, but 17 spaces not occupied in the seat map), why can't they just re-process the upgrade? and AMEX: I make these types of purchases on a semi-regular basis.

Maybe blame goes to Plusgrade here. "Hey we tried running your upgrade and the card didn't go through, you have 2 hours to provide another card" would be nice. Oh well. Still super bummed out that I'm not even in a chosen seat or good group for a Y long haul flight, hopefully the upgrade gods will throw me a bone for the LMU.

And this post was mostly for a rant: make sure all you other FT'ers make a call to your credit card companies and let them know you MAY get a charge soon ! One thing I could have done, that was mentioned here, is that I guess I could have used the "check spending power" for $1370, as that is supposed to flag in AMEX's system that the charge may be coming through. Live and learn I guess...
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