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Air Canada Master Fleet Changes Thread

Old Feb 15, 19, 9:51 pm
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Last edit by: Adam Smith
Background

It is intended that this wiki will be updated periodically using new fleet plans from future quarterly disclosures, presentations or press releases by AC, or information from other sources (e.g. Planespotters), and that anyone is free to update the wiki. The data in the wiki is intended to be as up-to-date as possible.

Fleet Evolution Over Time

This spreadsheet contains data on AC's fleet back to 2005, and includes numerous charts that detail the evolution of various types in the fleet from then until the present.

Overview of Current Fleet and Future Plans

Mainline Widebody Fleet

Boeing 777-300ER (77W)
Current: 18
Future plans: no changes planned

Boeing 777-200LR (77L)
Current: 6
Future plans: no changes planned

Boeing 787-9 (789)
Current: 29
Future plans: +2 in 2023, +1 in 2024

Boeing 787-8 (788)
Current: 8
Future plans: no changes planned

Airbus A330-300 (333)
Current: 16
Future plans: +1 in 2022, +1 in 2023

Mainline Narrowbody Fleet

AC has announced plans to acquire 30 A321 XLRs, with deliveries from 2024 to 2027, plus options for 15 additional aircraft with deliveries from 2027 to 2030. See this thread

Airbus A321 (321)
Current: 15
Future plans: no changes planned

Airbus A320 (320)
Current: 18
Future plans: -2 in 2022

Airbus A319 (319)
Current: 6
Future plans: -3 in 2022

Boeing 737-8 (7M8)
Current: 40

AC holds purchase options for 10 additional aircraft (7M7, 7M8, or 7M9).

Airbus A220-300 (223)
Current: 31
Future plans: +2 in 2022, further 27 aircraft on order

AC holds options for 15 additional aircraft.

rouge Narrowbody Fleet

Airbus A321 (321)
Current: 14
Future plans: +3 in 2022

Airbus A320 (320)
Current: 5
Future plans: no changes planned

Airbus A319 (319)
Current: 20
Future plans: no changes planned

Express Fleet

Following changes announced in early 2021, all regional aircraft are now operated by Jazz. Jazz has exclusivity to operate 70+ seat aircraft for AC until 2025.
More changes at Chorus. E175s transfering to Jazz, Dash8-300s leaving fleet

Embraer 175 (E75)
Current: 25
Future plans: no changes planned

Bombardier CRJ-900 (CR9)
Current: 35
Future plans: no changes planned

Bombardier CRJ-200 (CRJ)
Current: 15
Future plans: no changes planned

Bombardier Q400 (DH4)
Current: 39
Future plans: -3 in 2023

The last of the DH3 fleet was retired in early 2022.

AC has announced plans to acquire 30 Heart ES-30 hybrid regional aircraft. See this thread

Cargo Fleet

Boeing 777F (77F)
Current: 0
Further plans: +2 in 2024

Boeing 767-300F
Current: 4
Future plans: +2 in 2022, +1 in 2023, +3 in 2024/25

Sources

Information above is based primarily on the fleet plan in Air Canada's 2022 Q3 MD&A, as of October 28, 2022, with updates based on information from planespotters.net.
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Air Canada Master Fleet Changes Thread

Old May 6, 19, 9:23 am
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by 5mm View Post
Back in the day, the early morning flights were always sold out in both direction on all 3 airlines flying that route.
Oh, I'm not denying your point. Only noting that AC didn't try very hard to make it work. What kind of business person wants to not be able to return until almost 1am? (And, to me, there is a *huge* difference between 0500 and 0600 flight if I'm going somewhere for business. Especially since the latter sitll lands at 0630 or so. Why on earth would I take 0500 then?)

Anecdotally, the 0600 YQT-YWG and mid-late afternoone YWG-YQT on WS always seem full when I've been on them (as recenly as a few weeks back).
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Old May 6, 19, 11:47 am
  #47  
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Originally Posted by D404 View Post
I'm sure thay AC's horribly early 0500 sole flight, with a return landing at like 0040 did not exactly look appealing to many compared to WS's (multiple) more reasonable times. It always seemed like nothing more than a concenient place to overnight planes to me.
Originally Posted by 5mm View Post


Back in the day, the early morning flights were always sold out in both direction on all 3 airlines flying that route.
It's been a couple years since I flew those flights, but I agree the YQT-YWG was always full.
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Old May 6, 19, 6:03 pm
  #48  
 
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The AC YQT-YWG segment has been in a descending spiral for many years, matched by WJ ascending. YQT-YWG was 2x daily 15 years ago, then 1x daily on a CRJ2, then 1x daily on a Q4, then 1x daily on a Dash3, with terrible sched. At some point in the early 2000s the segment was operated by Calm Air.

Interesting how WJ could manage a 6am start and 25mins connections in YWG (or continue direct to YYC in the 737 days) while AC would start at 5am to feed marginally earlier departing YWG flights.

AC choose not to be competitive on this segment; no surprise it eventually failed.
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Old May 23, 19, 8:23 am
  #49  
 
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Are Sky Regional's 175's available for the Radical Winglets conversion?
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Old Jan 6, 20, 3:58 pm
  #50  
 
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Originally Posted by YXUFlyboy View Post



Agreed. It would seem that with the A220s enhancing the mainline fleet beyond the E90s some DH4 routes will go CR9 and some CR9 will go A220 maybe with lower frequency. Existing DH1 routes will go DH3 with lower frequency and some DH3 will upgauge to DH4 with lower frequency.
An FA confirmed to me on a YLW-YVR flight last night that it's the "small-binned" Q400s being retired...the FIN 490s. As she said, "they can't get rid of them soon enough, we all hate these stupid bins"
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Old Jan 6, 20, 4:30 pm
  #51  
 
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith View Post
Plenty of fleet developments going on at AC these days. We have a number of threads dedicated to individual aircraft type changes, but many airline forums on FT also have a master thread (or a couple) to keep track of type threads and discuss broader issues relating to fleet changes. I thought I'd start one here.

I hope this is useful for people as a quick reference to upcoming fleet changes as well as a place to discuss them.

The intention is to keep a wiki up to date with current fleet stats and plans, along with links to the individual threads with more in-depth discussion of individual types. The idea is to keep the wiki fairly up to date, so, for instance, I've not included links to the thread on the extra 77Ws that AC purchased in 2013 and were delivered in 2013-14.
Is it time for an update? I am curious about the widebody changes. Were all Boeing 767-300ER (763) aircraft retired in 2019? I am fairly certain I recognized the engine noise from one as it flew over my house a few days ago.
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Old Jan 6, 20, 4:59 pm
  #52  
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Originally Posted by GJS - yow View Post
Is it time for an update? I am curious about the widebody changes. Were all Boeing 767-300ER (763) aircraft retired in 2019? I am fairly certain I recognized the engine noise from one as it flew over my house a few days ago.
Aside from your ........

Wiki shows 6 for ML but little Fin 682 celebrated her retirement to the sun last September as noted here Air Canada's aging 767-300's

AC Fleet page shows




https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Air-Canada



Of course any one of these could be making noise


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Old Jan 6, 20, 5:04 pm
  #53  
 
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I should have said it was at 21:40, perfect timing for AC888 to LHR.

My point was that the wiki indicates all 763 aircraft were to leave the fleet in 2019. That, and a few other aircraft changes planned for 2019, haven't taken place. That's why I suggested an update may be due.
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Old Jan 6, 20, 5:08 pm
  #54  
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Originally Posted by GJS - yow View Post
I should have said it was at 21:40, perfect timing for AC888 to LHR.

My point was that the wiki indicates all 763 aircraft were to leave the fleet in 2019. That, and a few other aircraft changes planned for 2019, haven't taken place. That's why I suggested an update may be due.
This is exactly how I read your *nudge* post.
You're more than welcome to make changes.

I'm sure Mr. Smith won't mind... well, just as long as you don't bungle it up... but that's hard to do given the limited formatting tags used in this wiki.
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Old Jan 6, 20, 5:16 pm
  #55  
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Originally Posted by GJS - yow View Post
I should have said it was at 21:40, perfect timing for AC888 to LHR.

My point was that the wiki indicates all 763 aircraft were to leave the fleet in 2019. That, and a few other aircraft changes planned for 2019, haven't taken place. That's why I suggested an update may be due.
I know what you meant.
Saw the wink.
Understood the hint to Adam.
Still, thought I'd post.


And at least not over my location tonight

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Old Jan 6, 20, 7:04 pm
  #56  
 
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Originally Posted by davesmunroe View Post
An FA confirmed to me on a YLW-YVR flight last night that it's the "small-binned" Q400s being retired...the FIN 490s. As she said, "they can't get rid of them soon enough, we all hate these stupid bins"
I cant wait to see them gone. The interiors are in bad shape, bins are small, and the planes need to be sent to the paint shop.
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Old Jan 7, 20, 7:22 am
  #57  
 
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Originally Posted by AC7E7 View Post
I cant wait to see them gone. The interiors are in bad shape, bins are small, and the planes need to be sent to the paint shop.
Paint, bins and interiors are the least concerns for an airline who needs to retain as much capacity as possible in these days of Max restraint. If the 767s are still making money, they'll still fly, until the point there's a reasonable alternative and/or the company gets backed into a corner with forced large (maintenance) expenditures.
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Old Jan 7, 20, 8:55 am
  #58  
 
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I still love the 767v - sorry. love the 2-3-2 in economy, decent pitch still. And fast boarding and deplaning. Old - yes, but these old ladies have kept AC going with all sorts of odd rotations? Got one back from LGA on a rescue flight, SFO, and YOW. Plus many happy trips between the UK and Halifax to see family in the good old days. I don't care which livery the aircraft is in. They work and have a good safety record. Of course, AC must be pumping some money in to extend their life beyond what was planned but in the short term it's money well spent
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Old Jan 22, 20, 6:09 pm
  #59  
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Originally Posted by GJS - yow View Post
Is it time for an update? I am curious about the widebody changes. Were all Boeing 767-300ER (763) aircraft retired in 2019? I am fairly certain I recognized the engine noise from one as it flew over my house a few days ago.
The beauty of a wiki is that anyone can update it...

That being said, I've updated the wiki based on the latest available information, although things should become clearer after AC releases year-end results in six weeks or so.

All of the 763s definitely were not retired in 2019 though, only one. With the MAX grounding and 320 retirements starting to bite, AC is desperate for every bit of lift that it can get. If you were to compare the version of the wiki that I just updated to the one based on data from last February, you'd see that quite a few retirements have been pushed off. Now, keeping a DH1 around isn't a direct replacement for a 7M8, but you keep some DH1s and use those to replace some DH3 flying, downgauge some DH4 flights to DH3s, and so on up the line and eventually you've created a bit more wiggle room for yourself.

Originally Posted by GJS - yow View Post
My point was that the wiki indicates all 763 aircraft were to leave the fleet in 2019. That, and a few other aircraft changes planned for 2019, haven't taken place. That's why I suggested an update may be due.
Again, the wiki can be updated by anyone.

Originally Posted by Mikey Mike Mike View Post
I still love the 767 [...] They work
Debatable, given how many delays they suffer due to mechanical issues, and even when they fly, thrre frequently seem to be inoperative lav sinks and other equipment issues. And that has been a problem for many years.

Of course, AC must be pumping some money in to extend their life beyond what was planned but in the short term it's money well spent
Hard to say. I doubt that AC would throw cash at doing an extra D check just to keep them around for a few more months, but it may be that AC was planning to retire them a little while before the D checks came due and now they're going to run them right up to the limit. Either that or they've just limited their flying to prolong the amount of time they're available before coming up to D check.

Last edited by Adam Smith; Jan 22, 20 at 6:15 pm
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Old Jan 26, 20, 6:31 pm
  #60  
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@Fiordland @YVR72 @chriscol1 @EdmFlyBoi @StuMcIlwain @RangerNS Wanting to keep the rouge 763 retirement thread on topic, I've replied to a few posts here from that thread that were more related to broader fleet questions than rouge 763 replacement.

Originally Posted by Fiordland View Post
I thought AC plan was to keep AirTransat as a separate banner. The question may be how many aircraft go from Rouge to AirTransat.

One viable option may in fact be the Rouge A321 (the new aircraft) go to AirTransat. The A319 and 767 stay in Rouge until they are retired from the fleet and the new replacement aircraft are added to the two other banners.
Why, are you saying AC would fold the rouge brand? If anything, I think it would be more likely to fold Transat in to rouge.

Originally Posted by YVR72 View Post
My prediction is that 767s and some of the oldest Transat wide-bodies will be replaced by new build 787s (already optioned).
  1. Air Canada will create a sub-brand for “mainline” narrow-body domestic and transborder flying currently done by mainline, AC Express, Rouge and Transat.(737 and CR9). AC Express will be purely DH4 regional.
  2. “Transat, by Air Canada” will operate a fleet of 321, 32L and 788/9 on leisure routes replacing mainline and Rouge on many transborder and international routes.
  3. Air Canada mainline will operate “flag carrying” international routes and high yield/J-friendly domestic and transborder routes (YYZ, YUL, YYC, YVR, LAX, EWR) with 77L, 77W, 788/9, 332/3 and dare I suggest,, 77X.
What's the difference between the "mainline sub-brand" and "flag carrying"? And why would AC take back the E75s, CR9s, and CRJs, and fly them with higher-cost mainline pilots, rather than leave them with Jazz/Sky?

Originally Posted by chriscol1 View Post
The FAs also said the 767 would be going to Rouge, but I have no confirmation for that statement.
Originally Posted by StuMcIlwain View Post
All mainline 767s are supposed to be retired this spring, although they are trying to keep them around as long as possible due to the aircraft shortage, so that date may slide a bit.

I'm pretty sure that the remaining mainline 767s will be going to the desert when they are retired, not to Rouge or anyone else. They would keep them around at Air Canada longer if they had any life left in them, at least until the MAX is flying again, which is now likely next fall at the earliest.
Originally Posted by EdmFlyBoi View Post
As stated, the mainline 67’s are going to the scrapper. They are getting well past their “best before” date and would have already been scrapped if not for the Max grounding.
Originally Posted by chriscol1 View Post
No doubts the 767s are well past their BB date. I would personally scrap them .....a year or two ago. Not that this speaks to the worthiness of the plane itself, but one of them has literally had duct tape on the J wall recently.
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Didn't they plan to scrap them this year, until the Max issue came about?
Originally Posted by RangerNS View Post
While the 767s (and 320s) may have been planned to have one more one way flight to Arizona after their respective MAX came into service, that doesn't mean that the pre-deathmobile situation they wouldn't have had 1000+ cycles left on them.
The remaining mainline 763s were planned to be retired during the course of 2019.

AC stopped sending 763s to rouge in 2017, at which point there were 10 left at mainline, which were the oldest 10 in the fleet. Those that have left mainline since then were all scrapped because they had reached the end of their useful lives, or near enough to it that AC didn't want to operate them anymore.

Given the continued delays in getting the MAX back in to service, the remaining 763s will probably stick around until the bitter end, whether it be cycles, hours, or needing a D check that's just not worth the money. But that point may come even before the MAX comes back, as it seems to have for C-FCAE late last year.
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