Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Air Canada | Aeroplan
Reload this Page >

Air Canada Master Fleet Changes Thread

Register
Community
Wiki Posts
Today's Posts
Search
Old Feb 15, 2019, 9:51 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: Adam Smith
Background

It is intended that this wiki will be updated periodically using new fleet plans from future quarterly disclosures, presentations or press releases by AC, or information from other sources (e.g. Planespotters), and that anyone is free to update the wiki. The data in the wiki is intended to be as up-to-date as possible.


Fleet Evolution Over Time

This spreadsheet contains data on AC's fleet back to 2005, and includes numerous charts that detail the evolution of various types in the fleet from then until the present.


Overview of Current Fleet and Future Plans

Mainline Widebody Fleet

Boeing 777-300ER (77W)
Current: 19
Future plans: no changes planned

Boeing 777-200LR (77L)
Current: 6
Future plans: no changes planned

Boeing 787-10 (781)
Current: 0
Future plans: 18 aircraft to be delivered between Q4 of 2025 and Q1 of 2027; options for a further 12 aircraft

Boeing 787-9 (789)
Current: 30
Future plans: +2 in 2024

Boeing 787-8 (788)
Current: 8
Future plans: no changes planned

Airbus A330-300 (333)
Current: 18
Future plans: +1 in 2024

Mainline Narrowbody Fleet

AC has announced plans to acquire 30 A321 XLRs, with deliveries from 2025 to 2027, plus options for 15 additional aircraft with deliveries from 2027 to 2030. See this thread

Airbus A321 (321)
Current: 16
Future plans: no changes planned

Airbus A320 (320)
Current: 18
Future plans: +3 in 2024

Airbus A319 (319)
Current: 7
Future plans: -2 in 2024

Boeing 737-8 (7M8)
Current: 40
Future plans: +5 in 2025
AC holds purchase options for 10 additional aircraft (7M7, 7M8, or 7M9).

Airbus A220-300 (223)
Current: 33
Future plans: +2 in 2024, +7 in 2025, further 18 aircraft on order
AC holds options for 15 additional aircraft.

rouge Narrowbody Fleet

Airbus A321 (321)
Current: 17
Future plans: no changes planned

Airbus A320 (320)
Current: 5
Future plans: no changes planned

Airbus A319 (319)
Current: 18
Future plans: no changes planned

Express Fleet

All regional aircraft are operated by Jazz, with the exception of a small number of DH4s operated by PAL Airlines in Atlantic Canada.

Embraer 175 (E75)
Current: 25
Future plans: no changes planned

Bombardier CRJ-900 (CR9)
Current: 35
Future plans: no changes planned

Bombardier CRJ-200 (CRJ)
Current: 15
Future plans: -7 in 2024

Bombardier Q400 (DH4)
Current: 43
Future plans: no changes planned

The last of the DH3 fleet was retired in early 2022.

AC has announced plans to acquire 30 Heart ES-30 hybrid regional aircraft, with entry in to service in 2028. See this thread

Cargo Fleet

Boeing 767-300F
Current: 7
Future plans: +2 in 2024, +1 in 2025

Sources

Information above is based primarily on the fleet plan in Air Canada's 2023 Q4 MD&A, as of February 16, 2024, with updates based on information from planespotters.net, press releases, and other sources.
Print Wikipost

Air Canada Master Fleet Changes Thread

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old May 5, 2020, 6:13 pm
  #181  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,791
Originally Posted by Adam Smith


No way a 225 gets done for anything close to that cost. The world is a lot more complicated now and things cost way more to develop. The team that developed and certified the 221/223 are also long gone to other projects (a lot have gone to Mitsubishi, for instance), so there's a bunch of work to be done and costs to incur, even if some work has already been done on the design.
Not saying the cost would be that low, merely that the cost associated with a upsizing an existing model is relatively little. Largely adding fuselage plugs. But of course also testing, setting up manufacturing etc. As to the world being more complicated, actually the CRJ is not that old (and newest extensions are pretty recent and likely cost even less), the world may have become somewhat more complicated, but adding a couple of fuselage plugs remains a relatively straightforward design change.
Stranger is offline  
Reply
Old May 5, 2020, 6:59 pm
  #182  
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,741
Originally Posted by Stranger
Not saying the cost would be that low, merely that the cost associated with a upsizing an existing model is relatively little.
Yes, but the CSeries/220 program cost something like $7 billion to design and certify, so "relatively little" can still be a lot of dollars
Stranger likes this.
Adam Smith is offline  
Reply
Old May 6, 2020, 2:13 am
  #183  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan 50K/Star Alliance Gold, Accor Gold, base level Marriott/Hyatt/Hilton
Posts: 657
Originally Posted by After Burner
AC insider told me 767s will disappear from rouge fleet quickly (very "accelerated" retirement). Expect to see rouge 777s on such routes.
I find it hard to believe that. Even a 77L would have at least 32PE/300Y in rouge config, which is far too much Y and possibly too much PE. Some TATL rouge routes have a low load factor on the 767. If the choice is between a rouge 777 and mainline B789 or A333, AC will pick the latter for 9/10 current rouge flights.
yyztozag is online now  
Reply
Old May 6, 2020, 7:22 am
  #184  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Vancouver
Programs: AC SE100K 1MM, FB Platinum, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold Elite, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,602
Originally Posted by After Burner
AC insider told me 767s will disappear from rouge fleet quickly (very "accelerated" retirement). Expect to see rouge 777s on such routes.
Rouge 777's make zero sense. The 777HD are used on routes like YUL-CDG, YVR-LHR, and YVR-HKG, where there is both a large Y class demand and a J class demand. Why would AC remove J class seats from the 777's and convert those routes to Rouge? LHR, CDG, HKG, etc, will not likely see Rouge take over those routes.
EdmFlyBoi is offline  
Reply
Old May 6, 2020, 10:45 am
  #185  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YVR - MILLS Waypoint (It's the third house on the left)
Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
Posts: 6,213
I flew in the back of an HD once. Exactly once.

I felt like I had been Rouged.

But I agree it would seem unlikely that Rouge would be using these birds, for the reasons raised by several posters.
Cloud Lounger likes this.
Bohemian1 is online now  
Reply
Old May 6, 2020, 10:48 am
  #186  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,791
Originally Posted by Adam Smith
Yes, but the CSeries/220 program cost something like $7 billion to design and certify, so "relatively little" can still be a lot of dollars
The CSeries cost too much to design etc. Also suffered quite a bit from both AB and Boeing trying to kill it, which may have had an impact in th development cost.

But anyway, about a 225, the 320neo and cannibalization, looking at capacity and ranges again, I would argue that even the 223 provides some sort of cannibalization. AC's 223 seats 137, while the 320 seats 146, with significant differences in operating costs, even if, as it is likely the case, fuel will remain cheap for the foreseeable future. In that context, if I were an airline I don't see that I would invest in the 320neo anymore. (But of course, in some version of the 321, absolutely. Now the soft spot.)
Stranger is offline  
Reply
Old May 6, 2020, 12:40 pm
  #187  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto - YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan/Hilton Gold/Marriott Bonvoy Titanium/Accor/Hyatt Gold Passport
Posts: 5,899
Originally Posted by yyztozag
I find it hard to believe that. Even a 77L would have at least 32PE/300Y in rouge config, which is far too much Y and possibly too much PE. Some TATL rouge routes have a low load factor on the 767. If the choice is between a rouge 777 and mainline B789 or A333, AC will pick the latter for 9/10 current rouge flights.
They are rarely deemed economical, but perhaps a return to "tag-end" flights might be a short term solution to filling up aircraft. The original ZAG operation (wayyyy back)
was YYZ-ZRH-ZAG. Fond memories at the Hotel Esplanade.
ACYYZ/SD is offline  
Reply
Old May 6, 2020, 12:46 pm
  #188  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto - YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan/Hilton Gold/Marriott Bonvoy Titanium/Accor/Hyatt Gold Passport
Posts: 5,899
Originally Posted by yyztozag
I find it hard to believe that. Even a 77L would have at least 32PE/300Y in rouge config, which is far too much Y and possibly too much PE. Some TATL rouge routes have a low load factor on the 767. If the choice is between a rouge 777 and mainline B789 or A333, AC will pick the latter for 9/10 current rouge flights.
UA's most densified 777-200 has 364 seats including Business and E+. Never say never but the chances of the 777's being Rouged is infinitesimal.
EdmFlyBoi likes this.
ACYYZ/SD is offline  
Reply
Old May 6, 2020, 2:05 pm
  #189  
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,741
The only way I could see rouge 777s making sense is if they ditched a bunch of the 763s as leases came up, then acquired a bunch of ultra-cheap old 777-200/200ERs for next to nothing on the used market in a couple of years when they wanted to ramp up rouge again. But it's pretty implausible. There will likely be cheaper options that are better sized (767s, 330s, etc).

Originally Posted by Bohemian1
I flew in the back of an HD once. Exactly once.

I felt like I had been Rouged.
That's one more time than I've sat in the back of an AC HD plane. Also one more time than I've flown Y in rouge.
Bohemian1 and EdmFlyBoi like this.
Adam Smith is offline  
Reply
Old May 6, 2020, 3:29 pm
  #190  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,791
Originally Posted by Adam Smith


That's one more time than I've sat in the back of an AC HD plane. Also one more time than I've flown Y in rouge.
Ditto.
canadiancow likes this.
Stranger is offline  
Reply
Old May 6, 2020, 4:35 pm
  #191  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Vancouver
Programs: AC SE100K 1MM, FB Platinum, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold Elite, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,602
Originally Posted by Stranger
Ditto.
Ditto as well.
EdmFlyBoi is offline  
Reply
Old May 7, 2020, 10:03 pm
  #192  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: YYJ/YYT
Programs: AC 75K (*G), NEXUS
Posts: 652
Originally Posted by 24left
It seems AC is "retiring" 79 aircraft: all the E90s
I guess I'll have to change my username
canadiancow likes this.
marke190 is offline  
Reply
Old May 7, 2020, 10:17 pm
  #193  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,302
Originally Posted by marke190
I guess I'll have to change my username
Careful, you can only do it once.
marke190 likes this.
canadiancow is offline  
Reply
Old May 7, 2020, 10:19 pm
  #194  
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,741
Originally Posted by marke190
I guess I'll have to change my username
No, don't worry. It will only appear awkwardly dated for a short while, then it will be nostalgic
Adam Smith is offline  
Reply
Old May 8, 2020, 12:16 pm
  #195  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: YYJ/YYT
Programs: AC 75K (*G), NEXUS
Posts: 652
Originally Posted by Adam Smith
No, don't worry. It will only appear awkwardly dated for a short while, then it will be nostalgic
Once the MAXs are back and seat pitch is decreased even more we'll all be yearning for the E90s, my username will serve as a poignant reminder of simpler times
canadiancow likes this.
marke190 is offline  
Reply



Advanced Search
Reply Closed Thread Share
Forum Jump

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.