hypoxia

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out how to match up what shows as available through ExpertFlyer and what I can actually book on aircanada.com.
I've searched at length for more information here and elsewhere, and haven't been able to find sufficient info so it's time to ask for help.

I'm flying YYZ-ATL:
- Departing May 21 AC7544 (J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 R8 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 G9 S9 T9 L9 A9 K9)
- Returning May 22 AC7557 (J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 R8 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 G9 S9 T9 L9 A2 K0)

Fare basis codes include:
A21S1TG (validated), Round-Trip, $338, expires June20, adv purchase 21 days
A21Q1TG (validated), Round-trip, $368, no expiry, adv purchase 21 days <-- this is the closest to the lowest expedia.ca fare (K departure, A return -> $373 for flight or $507 total)
L21S1TG (not validated), $402, expires Feb28, adv purchase 21 <-- this matches what you can book through aircanada.com (K departure, L return -> $402 for flight or $548 total) but isn't validated(?!)L14Q1TG (validated), Round-trip, $558, no expiry, adv purchase 14 days
Question 1: Why can't I book A class for return on aircanada.com, even though it appears to have spaces available? (A2)

Question 2: Why can't I book the lowest A class fare basis code through aircanada.com? (e.g. A21S1TG for $338; fare rules here: https://pastebin.com/cbEjbb2y )

Question 3: Is the A fare likely available through Expedia because they pre-purchased a block of seats, or because they're able to book the A fare directly?

Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide!

Adam Smith

Did you search EF for round trip or two one-ways? Could be a point of sale issue if you did one-ways, i.e. A fare may available if your PoS is ATL but not YYZ. If you buy a round trip from ac.com, the PoS is YYZ for both.

I don't know how Expedia deals with PoS.

Plumber

I have wondered the same thing about some fares I see on EF-- then I usually find something buried in the rules...

Dis you see this in the Conditions?...

CAPACITY LIMITATIONS
CARRIER SHALL LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PASSENGERS
CARRIED ON ANY ONE FLIGHT AT FARES GOVERNED BY
RULES MAKING REFERENCE HERETO AND SUCH FARES
WILL NOT NECESSARILY BE AVAILABLE ON ALL FLIGHTS
OPERATED BY THE CARRIER. THE NUMBER OF SEATS
WHICH THE CARRIER SHALL MAKE AVAILABLE ON A
GIVEN FLIGHT WILL BE DETERMINED BY THE CARRIERS
BEST JUDGEMENT AS TO THE ANTICIPATED TOTAL
PASSENGER LOAD ON EACH FLIGHT.

hypoxia

That's very interesting, thank you for the info.

All of my searches were round trip.

Redoing it now:
AC return shows YYZ->ATL $244 and ATL->YYZ $304
AC one-ways show YYZ-ATL $244 and ATL->YYZ $262

Any idea why this would happen?
And/or why I wouldn't be able to book the round-trip fare basis codes?

hypoxia

Yes, Plumber -- that is included in the fare rules.
Does that mean they are disallowing fares on some basis that we can't know given fare class availability?

Plumber

That is how I am reading it, I don't see any other restrictions in the fare rules as to why that CAD$338 fare would not be available to you.

hydrogen

1. Is your currency correct? EF defaults to USD and AC.com (Canada) is CAD. So fare difference might be due to you forgetting to put the correct currency in
2. Are you POS correct? US availability and Canadian availability can differ.
3. Did you leave the validate fare box checked? Just because a fare is published doesn't necessarily mean that it valid or applicable to your trip.

Plumber

Yes to all of the above when I checked. And i see same prices at the OP.

gokeeper

@hypoxia
Have you tried to search on Air Canada US website? AC7557 @ May 22 shows
at Canadian POS while
at U.S POS, may be this is the reason?
I tried to price it in A class and get C$480.82 all in with fare rule A21S1TG.

YOW_RTW

I am looking for some advice from those who may be more knowledgeable with ExpertFlyer (EF) and AC reservations. On a few occasions now, EF will display P>0 on a particular AC flight; however, when trying to book via the AC call centre, I am told that only Z (or higher) is available. This is for a single AC segment (no married segments at play) and there is definitely a valid P-fare basis available for the selected route/date(s). I believe there may be a fare origin (or Point of Sale) issue at play, but I cannot replicate the same availability on EF. Here is an example:

YYZ->MUC on AC863 on 7 Sep 2023. EF shows P9 irrespective of the PoS (Canada or Germany) and irrespective if searched as a direct or round-trip either Canada or Germany as the origin.

If I try to book a round-trip YYZ->MUC->YYZ on AC.com, P is offered on AC863 with the outbound on 7 Sep (a return flight was chosen >14 days later). If however, I try to book MUC->YYZ->MUC, with the YYZ->MUC segment being on the exact same AC863 on 7 Sep, only a Z fare is offered on AC.com (which was also confirmed by the AC call centre agent). Again, there is a valid P-fare basis available for both directions for the dates chosen, as other flights/routing offered P-class on that day including the direct codeshare on LH.

Does anyone know what is at play here when the reservation system restricts the fare bucket on the same flight, based on its inbound vs. outbound status? Is there anyway to get EF to replicate what I am seeing on AC.com? I did play with the routing and PoS on EF, but it did not change the results (showed P9 in all cases). I have now been frustrated a few times trying to book a complex itinerary, only to find out that one segment doesn't have the same availability shown by EF.

Adam Smith

I think this may be a case where availability of the fare (not the fare class) depends on availability in another fare bucket. I don't see it in the fare rules anywhere, but searching other date combinations around your September 7 date (with a MUC-YYZ a couple weeks before in August), it looks consistent that if availability in the A bucket is 2 or greater, the P fare you're seeing on other dates, and on the LH flight, is available. If it's A1 or A0, it's kicking it up to Z.

Illustration:

• Outbound August 18, return September 7: AC836 is A1, prices in Z
• Outbound August 17, return September 6: AC836 is A6, prices in P
• Outbound August 19, return September 8: AC836 is A0, prices in Z
• Outbound August 16, return September 5: AC836 is A2, prices in P

I'm not going to list them all, but I tried this for about 10 different dates and it seemed pretty consistent.

@D582 often has good insight on this kind of stuff.

D582

AC manages inventory on an origin-destination basis, and also based on the entire journey.

You see P>0 when you search for both segments individually, however once you book a P seat on an outbound flight (say 24AUG MUCYYZ), AC has now decided that P will no longer be offered on your return. ExpertFlyer cannot help here because it does not construct a PNR and cannot do a complete journey search for availability.

If you see below, seats are P9 on both directions. However once I add a P seat to the PNR on the outbound, it is now P0 for the return.

YOW_RTW

Thank you both for your reply and insight. Much appreciated!