767s on YOW-LHR/YOW-FRA
Hi all,
Anything concrete on when the 767s will be dropped on YOW TATL routes in favour of 787s? Booking my summer holidays to Europe and have heard the old pods are in pretty rough shape. Thanks! |
The 767s are being retired throughout the year, but the only insight we have on when they'll disappear is whatever is on the schedule. So if the flights are currently marked as being operated by 763, that's the most likely scenario as of now.
As for the old pods, yes, although the one advantage is that they don't deflate. |
Be careful what you wish for. Some rumours have the 767s being replaced by the 7M8 out of YOW, at least some of the time. If that happens we’re going to be wishing for the 767s back. Even the 788 is a capacity upguage, and I don’t know if they can operate 888/889 and 838/839 with more capacity and still maintain acceptable loads. Hopefully these rumours are wrong... |
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 30766734)
Be careful what you wish for. Some rumours have the 767s being replaced by the 7M8 out of YOW, at least some of the time. If that happens we’re going to be wishing for the 767s back. Even the 788 is a capacity upguage, and I don’t know if they can operate 888/889 and 838/839 with more capacity and still maintain acceptable loads. Hopefully these rumours are wrong... Be glad there are still some 767s in the fleet. |
Originally Posted by StuMcIlwain
(Post 30766790)
It's definitely a concern. They struggle to fill the 767s outside of peak travel times.
Be glad there are still some 767s in the fleet. |
Originally Posted by cooleddie
(Post 30766795)
Can 737s operate out of Ottawa?
I can see 888/889 going to 7M8 year round and 838/839 operating in the summer on a 788, maybe 5 days a week. Want a J seat to LHR? Connect in YYZ or YUL. Not like there is another option... |
I already fly via YYZ (and sometimes YUL) to Europe at least half of the time. The YOW-LHR flight arrives too late into London for me. If the 7M8 operates 888/889, I will not take it eastbound, but I won't mind taking it on the return daytime flight from LHR to YOW.
-- 13F |
I took the 7M8 from YUL to DUB and that was far enough for me.
I will not take the 7M8 to LHR from YOW if it comes here. I will find another route. |
They need to keep at least one 767 for the LGA cancelled flight sweeps.
I have flown most of my adult life in the 767 and have no issues with them (even if they are now held together with duck tape on occasion) |
Originally Posted by MQS007
(Post 30768974)
They need to keep at least one 767 for the LGA cancelled flight sweeps.
I have flown most of my adult life in the 767 and have no issues with them (even if they are now held together with duck tape on occasion) |
Originally Posted by MQS007
(Post 30768974)
They need to keep at least one 767 for the LGA cancelled flight sweeps.
I have flown most of my adult life in the 767 and have no issues with them (even if they are now held together with duck tape on occasion) Won't the Rouge ones do?:) |
Originally Posted by cooleddie
(Post 30766795)
Can 737s operate out of Ottawa?
Don't they use them YUL (or is it YYZ?) to BOD already, or at least already announced? |
This discussion is exactly why Air Canada is looking at the A321XLR and the Boeing 797 (or whatever single aisle they replace the 757 with, if they do). 787 too big, 737 too small, everything else doesn't have the range.
|
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 30769032)
This discussion is exactly why Air Canada is looking at the A321XLR and the Boeing 797 (or whatever single aisle they replace the 757 with, if they do). 787 too big, 737 too small, everything else doesn't have the range.
787 too big. 7M8 works as long as there is not much of a business class market, i.e. Dublin, Bordeaux, Iceland and the like. But you would think YOW-LHR might be a good J market. |
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 30769032)
This discussion is exactly why Air Canada is looking at the A321XLR and the Boeing 797 (or whatever single aisle they replace the 757 with, if they do). 787 too big, 737 too small, everything else doesn't have the range.
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Originally Posted by Symmetre
(Post 30769597)
757? Assume you meant to type 767, since AC has never flown the single-aisle 757.
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Having flown on the 767 from YOW to YYZ, I love it - and it's swept me up out of LGA too. (A most welcome sight after a 4 hour delay). My fondest memories however on the 767 remain the YHZ to LHR flights (except when they went via St Johns) with Halifax based crew. Even the YOW to YYZ afternoon flight is done well by senior crew on a LHR / FRA - YOW - YYZ sector. (must be tiring for them too!)
I wonder whether an A330 fits this route better than a 787-8 though clearly not on cost. Down-gauging to a max would be such a retrograde move. Family in Halifax HATE the max to Heathrow. Having flown Toronto to SFO on a max, I now avoid it and would take an A320/1 or a wide body just to avoid the max. The wider issue, and it will emerge again with the withdrawal of the E190s is whether the replacement within the fleet is a like for like replacement. The A220 is larger and may not fit the profile of the YYZ to YOW route. Mind you, neither is the A319 which is making more of an appearance on the route as a emergency replacement. Where we are used to a certain aircraft and size on certain routes, this modernisation and consolidation of aircraft types will change both how AC and PAX both think |
Originally Posted by Stranger
(Post 30769071)
But you would think YOW-LHR might be a good J market. |
Upping a 767 to 787 may not be very difficult. 788 is bigger but has fewer J seats. For Y it seems like it’s very easy to fill a few more seats as long as the pricing is ok. |
Originally Posted by songsc
(Post 30770891)
For Y it seems like it’s very easy to fill a few more seats as long as the pricing is ok. That might be a losing proposition. |
Originally Posted by Mikey Mike Mike
(Post 30770811)
The wider issue, and it will emerge again with the withdrawal of the E190s is whether the replacement within the fleet is a like for like replacement. The A220 is larger and may not fit the profile of the YYZ to YOW route. Mind you, neither is the A319 which is making more of an appearance on the route as a emergency replacement. Where we are used to a certain aircraft and size on certain routes, this modernisation and consolidation of aircraft types will change both how AC and PAX both think
I'd love to see the 788s on the YOW-LHR/FRA routes, just for the PE cabin alone, but as I noted above that is not what they crews on 888/889 are talking about; they say 7M8. |
Originally Posted by StuMcIlwain
(Post 30770872)
I've had a lot of success with J award tickets on that route, which is not a good sign. Again, it only seems to be busy at peak travel times.
One problem with the business class market on the YOW-LHR flight is that even though there would be a lot of government travel between the two cities, the route isn't long enough for business class travel to be authorized for the bureaucrats. |
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 30769032)
This discussion is exactly why Air Canada is looking at the A321XLR and the Boeing 797 (or whatever single aisle they replace the 757 with, if they do). 787 too big, 737 too small, everything else doesn't have the range.
|
Originally Posted by StuMcIlwain
(Post 30766790)
It's definitely a concern. They struggle to fill the 767s outside of peak travel times.
Originally Posted by cooleddie
(Post 30766795)
Can 737s operate out of Ottawa?
|
Originally Posted by CloudsBelow
(Post 30771590)
Don't know where you're getting most of the "insight" (using that term as loosely as possible) you've posted in this thread, but you should look for a new source
Air Canada CEO: ?There Is Need? For NMA-Size Aircraft | AWIN_Commercial content from Aviation Week As usual, you swoop in to be a .......... I don't need a source for that though. |
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 30771678)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKCN1P82FT
Air Canada CEO: ?There Is Need? For NMA-Size Aircraft AWIN_Commercial content from Aviation Week As usual, you swoop in to be a .......... I don't need a source for that though. I was referring to this insight:
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 30766818)
I can see 888/889 going to 7M8 year round and 838/839 operating in the summer on a 788, maybe 5 days a week. Want a J seat to LHR? Connect in YYZ or YUL. and this:
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 30766734)
Some rumours have the 767s being replaced by the 7M8 out of YOW,
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 30769032)
This discussion is exactly why Air Canada is looking at the A321XLR and the Boeing 797
|
Originally Posted by CloudsBelow
(Post 30771615)
Elaborate? What are the seasonal LF ex YOW? What about the yield? How are the profits on the overwhelmingly O/D TATL passengers on AC's 767 sectors ex YOW?
I certainly hope the flight doesn't become a 7M8. |
At this point, it is clear that everything is clear speculation. I have heard some airport staff mentioning that A330 as a potential replacement, potentially seasonally - but when you think about it, with the A330 planes and crew being based in YUL - that doesn't make much sense. Although a decision may already have been made by AC, schedule is still showing 767 into next year. I was trying to look at the YOW YYZ schedule for clues and right now pretty much everything is showing E90 no not much help. So in summary...
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Originally Posted by CloudsBelow
(Post 30771960)
Cool google search.
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 30769032)
This discussion is exactly why Air Canada is looking at the A321XLR and the Boeing 797
Air Canada sees a need for an aircraft the size of Boeing’s proposed new midmarket aircraft (NMA) to provide extended-range services between smaller markets. CEO Calin Rovinescu indicated the airline is interested in an aircraft that would fit into its fleet between Boeing’s 737 MAX and 787. “There is a need for aircraft of that size, for secondary airports in North America, Europe and Asia, but with the range of a widebody aircraft,” he said |
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 30773575)
My source for the 7M8 rumors are numerous discussions with crew who operate 888/889 over the last year or so, who have told me explicitly they have heard that 888/889 is moving to the 7M8 once the 767 rotates out of mainline. They could be completely wrong of course, it isn't like crew work in route planning. If you've got a better source other than that feel free to provide it. Right, you don't.
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Am YOW based and like to see the service, but is it a plausible scenario that they just don't continue YOW-LHR service? I haven't seen that mentioned, everyone assumes they will find a way with Max8, 330 or 321.
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Originally Posted by YZF_Elite
(Post 30774758)
Am YOW based and like to see the service, but is it a plausible scenario that they just don't continue YOW-LHR service? I haven't seen that mentioned, everyone assumes they will find a way with Max8, 330 or 321.
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Just taxiing in to YOW and I noticed that AC888 is being operated by a 787-9 tonight. I am sure it is just a 767 gone mechanical, but it was a nice rare sight.
Gives me hope AC could operate 888 and/or 838 with one in the summer time. ;) |
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 31129299)
Just taxiing in to YOW and I noticed that AC888 is being operated by a 787-9 tonight. I am sure it is just a 767 gone mechanical, but it was a nice rare sight.
Gives me hope AC could operate 888 and/or 838 with one in the summer time. ;) |
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 31129299)
Just taxiing in to YOW and I noticed that AC888 is being operated by a 787-9 tonight. I am sure it is just a 767 gone mechanical, but it was a nice rare sight.
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Originally Posted by YOWCDNFF
(Post 31129361)
Mechanical indeed. FIN641 stuck in YYZ for engine swap
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But it is good to have working engines - no?
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Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 31129299)
Just taxiing in to YOW and I noticed that AC888 is being operated by a 787-9 tonight. I am sure it is just a 767 gone mechanical, but it was a nice rare sight.
Gives me hope AC could operate 888 and/or 838 with one in the summer time. ;) |
Originally Posted by ACYYZ/SD
(Post 31130350)
I'm guessing 788's for S2020. 767's are slated to retire in 2019.
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Originally Posted by YoYUL
(Post 31519421)
You guessed correctly. ^
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