767s on YOW-LHR/YOW-FRA

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Old Feb 12, 19, 11:49 am
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Originally Posted by Symmetre View Post
757? Assume you meant to type 767, since AC has never flown the single-aisle 757.
I think "they" was meant for Boeing. AC could consider this new type of plane even though they never flown the 757
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Old Feb 12, 19, 3:59 pm
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Having flown on the 767 from YOW to YYZ, I love it - and it's swept me up out of LGA too. (A most welcome sight after a 4 hour delay). My fondest memories however on the 767 remain the YHZ to LHR flights (except when they went via St Johns) with Halifax based crew. Even the YOW to YYZ afternoon flight is done well by senior crew on a LHR / FRA - YOW - YYZ sector. (must be tiring for them too!)

I wonder whether an A330 fits this route better than a 787-8 though clearly not on cost. Down-gauging to a max would be such a retrograde move. Family in Halifax HATE the max to Heathrow. Having flown Toronto to SFO on a max, I now avoid it and would take an A320/1 or a wide body just to avoid the max.

The wider issue, and it will emerge again with the withdrawal of the E190s is whether the replacement within the fleet is a like for like replacement. The A220 is larger and may not fit the profile of the YYZ to YOW route. Mind you, neither is the A319 which is making more of an appearance on the route as a emergency replacement. Where we are used to a certain aircraft and size on certain routes, this modernisation and consolidation of aircraft types will change both how AC and PAX both think
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Old Feb 12, 19, 4:14 pm
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
But you would think YOW-LHR might be a good J market.
I've had a lot of success with J award tickets on that route, which is not a good sign. Again, it only seems to be busy at peak travel times.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 4:21 pm
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Upping a 767 to 787 may not be very difficult. 788 is bigger but has fewer J seats. For Y it seems like it’s very easy to fill a few more seats as long as the pricing is ok.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 5:40 pm
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Originally Posted by songsc View Post
For Y it seems like it’s very easy to fill a few more seats as long as the pricing is ok.
That might be a losing proposition.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 6:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Mikey Mike Mike View Post
The wider issue, and it will emerge again with the withdrawal of the E190s is whether the replacement within the fleet is a like for like replacement. The A220 is larger and may not fit the profile of the YYZ to YOW route. Mind you, neither is the A319 which is making more of an appearance on the route as a emergency replacement. Where we are used to a certain aircraft and size on certain routes, this modernisation and consolidation of aircraft types will change both how AC and PAX both think
The E190s on this route are a more recent thing, and even after AC backpedaled and put some A320s back on the route and fixed the evening timetable the E190s are still frequently at or over capacity. More capacity on YYZ-YOW would be a good thing.

I'd love to see the 788s on the YOW-LHR/FRA routes, just for the PE cabin alone, but as I noted above that is not what they crews on 888/889 are talking about; they say 7M8.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 7:26 pm
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Originally Posted by StuMcIlwain View Post
I've had a lot of success with J award tickets on that route, which is not a good sign. Again, it only seems to be busy at peak travel times.
Yes, just booked a J award - TATL segment on YOW-FRA. Both YOW-LHR and YOW-FRA were pretty much wide open through aeroplan on a lot of dates during the summer. Was also able to burn my orphan A3 M+B points in order to score another J ticket, same route. Again, for that program, these two flights were showing up on a lot of dates through the summer.

One problem with the business class market on the YOW-LHR flight is that even though there would be a lot of government travel between the two cities, the route isn't long enough for business class travel to be authorized for the bureaucrats.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 7:57 pm
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Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW View Post
This discussion is exactly why Air Canada is looking at the A321XLR and the Boeing 797 (or whatever single aisle they replace the 757 with, if they do). 787 too big, 737 too small, everything else doesn't have the range.
Don't know where you're getting most of the "insight" (using that term as loosely as possible) you've posted in this thread, but you should look for a new source
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Old Feb 12, 19, 8:04 pm
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Originally Posted by StuMcIlwain View Post
It's definitely a concern. They struggle to fill the 767s outside of peak travel times.
Elaborate? What are the seasonal LF ex YOW? What about the yield? How are the profits on the overwhelmingly O/D TATL passengers on AC's 767 sectors ex YOW?
Originally Posted by cooleddie View Post
Can 737s operate out of Ottawa?
What are the issues you think would render 737s unable to operate in/out of Ottawa? Are you referring to the rule 737s can't fly within 10NM of Parliament hill?
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Old Feb 12, 19, 8:20 pm
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Originally Posted by CloudsBelow View Post
Don't know where you're getting most of the "insight" (using that term as loosely as possible) you've posted in this thread, but you should look for a new source
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKCN1P82FT

Air Canada CEO: ?There Is Need? For NMA-Size Aircraft | AWIN_Commercial content from Aviation Week

As usual, you swoop in to be a .......... I don't need a source for that though.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 9:53 pm
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Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW View Post
Cool google search.
I was referring to this insight:
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW View Post
I can see 888/889 going to 7M8 year round and 838/839 operating in the summer on a 788, maybe 5 days a week. Want a J seat to LHR? Connect in YYZ or YUL.

and this:
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW View Post
Some rumours have the 767s being replaced by the 7M8 out of YOW,
and this:
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW View Post
This discussion is exactly why Air Canada is looking at the A321XLR and the Boeing 797
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Old Feb 13, 19, 4:07 am
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Originally Posted by CloudsBelow View Post
Elaborate? What are the seasonal LF ex YOW? What about the yield? How are the profits on the overwhelmingly O/D TATL passengers on AC's 767 sectors ex YOW?
Obviously no one here has that information. But I do know that it is routine for one midweek flight to not operate during off-peak times. I have observed that the plane is often not full and award seats are more readily available than say on YYZ-LHR. None of these are good signs that an upgauge would work.

I certainly hope the flight doesn't become a 7M8.
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Old Feb 13, 19, 6:23 am
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At this point, it is clear that everything is clear speculation. I have heard some airport staff mentioning that A330 as a potential replacement, potentially seasonally - but when you think about it, with the A330 planes and crew being based in YUL - that doesn't make much sense. Although a decision may already have been made by AC, schedule is still showing 767 into next year. I was trying to look at the YOW YYZ schedule for clues and right now pretty much everything is showing E90 no not much help. So in summary...
  • 767 could get ti survive the Winter 2020 schedule, as it is low season
  • 7M8 could come in - and FF out of YOW won't be thrilled and may choose to connect elsewhere
  • 788 or A330 could come in -resulting in an upgage - so could impact flight frequency, especially in the low season (For LHR).
All that to say... we will know when we will know
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Old Feb 13, 19, 8:55 am
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Originally Posted by CloudsBelow View Post
Cool google search.
My source for the 7M8 rumors are numerous discussions with crew who operate 888/889 over the last year or so, who have told me explicitly they have heard that 888/889 is moving to the 7M8 once the 767 rotates out of mainline. They could be completely wrong of course, it isn't like crew work in route planning. If you've got a better source other than that feel free to provide it. Right, you don't.

Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW View Post
This discussion is exactly why Air Canada is looking at the A321XLR and the Boeing 797
Air Canada sees a need for an aircraft the size of Boeing’s proposed new midmarket aircraft (NMA) to provide extended-range services between smaller markets. CEO Calin Rovinescu indicated the airline is interested in an aircraft that would fit into its fleet between Boeing’s 737 MAX and 787. “There is a need for aircraft of that size, for secondary airports in North America, Europe and Asia, but with the range of a widebody aircraft,” he said
Are you telling me that YOW is not a secondary airport in North America that AC flies from that they would not want to use something like an A321XLR or NMA on? You've got a better source? Right, again, you don't.
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Old Feb 13, 19, 1:40 pm
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Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW View Post
My source for the 7M8 rumors are numerous discussions with crew who operate 888/889 over the last year or so, who have told me explicitly they have heard that 888/889 is moving to the 7M8 once the 767 rotates out of mainline. They could be completely wrong of course, it isn't like crew work in route planning. If you've got a better source other than that feel free to provide it. Right, you don't.
For future reference, frontline airline employees are often terrible sources for information. Anything and everything is discussed and rumours are spread like wildfire as if they're the gospel. I know they mean well, but take anything like that with a hefty grain of salt.
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