expert7700

Most dreamliner windows are not totally dark at the 'most dark' setting. Sun/Moon/Blinking lights still very visible. Sometimes to emulate full dark mode and prevent waking up to an FA-overridden 'wake up' mode of full bright during breakfast service) I have covered the window with a menu card (or a piece of aluminum foil--light/cheap/effective option to make the window as 'full dark' as a physical shade).

That being said I have been on some recent 787-9 dreamliner builds have much more of a blackout effect. These flights have gone down to a 100% 'limo tint black' mode. They have a much faster transition response time than early builds which could take quite a while and blink the blue control LED while changing brightness modes). I'm not sure if Boeing enhanced their product OR if the carriers can set what Min/Max digital brightness matches up to opacity wise.

Badenoch

AC868 is my favourite flight to the UK for the same reasons and I take it at least twice a year. In late November the shades were up IIRC.

mapleg

Redacted

24left

There were complaints early on (2014-2015) with the dark mode just being dark green. I have photos (may have posted on FT) of the AC flight to HND, where the bright sun is coming through the green tint - at the time, the darkest mode. I recall reading somewhere, that it had been adjusted and indeed, it is much darker now. Having flown the 789s of 3 other airlines recently, there seems to be a difference in the level of darkness set by crews or perhaps, that is what those airlines requested. In the photos thread, IIRC, there are a couple of photos of the sun still coming through but the tint is much darker, giving more of a purple hue.

Orcair

Probably this, though I haven't heard more since 2016...

"A darker, second generation product is now being shipped to 787 customers, confirms Gentex Corporation, which provides the electrochromic technology used in PPG Aerospace’s interactive window systems on the 787, and an even darker version is under development at Gentex."

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2016/0...arker-version/

expert7700

So I am not imagining things.. the Gen3 10x darker version' is probably on 2018+ builds. Unfortunately it is probably difficult ($) to retrofit older birds.

Even more unfortunate timing: CES 2019 just ended and I didn't look for a Gentex booth

CZAMFlyer

As a fellow window shade open guy, I must say this is a bit anti-social if you're sleeping. If I want to look out the window, I do so, and compromise by often lowering the shade partway to reduce glare on other people's screens etc. If I'm sleeping with the window shade stubbornly open, then I'm the dbag.

I used to ferry airplanes out of there often, so yes. Or do you mean something different?

Transpacificflyer

Yes I am aware of DVT and it is an issue more likely to be associated with the "people of size" with pre-existing conditions crammed into Y seats . As I am a non smoker, not on birth control nor HRT, do not have varicose veins, nor pre-exisitng vascular damage, nor a history or genetic predisposition to blood clots, I am not at risk of DVT. I suggest that you familiarize yourself with the health literature before you wave your stubby digit of sanctimony at me. The folks who have done the research are of the view that the darkening of cabins with the quick sedentary state is damaging to a broader cross section of passengers.

The small variations in the window opacity do not change the negative impact of the induced sleep state. The fact remains that the AC FA strategy of darkening the cabin is unhealthy and harmful to the well being of the passengers.

5mm

I don't know one airline that doesn't darken the cabin. Your unhealthy claim, well?

JustSomeGuy1978

isnt it a requirement that airlines have the window shades OPEN during landing (and take off???). If ac crew locked the windows in the dark postion for the entire flight gate to gate, than werent they in contravention of some safety regulation? Corollary, how are these rules applied to electonic darkening of windows as on the 787? Can the windows remain dark because one can still see through the darkened window?

i think rather than saying its my right to do x, we should instead be prepared for a variety of circumstances. Want to sleep during a daylight flight? Be prepared with eye shades/mask. Want to stay up and work through a night time flight? Be prepared to use less disruptive (headphones, lower volume, lowered screen brightness, and voice)

5mm

Some countries yes. Canada No.

Admiral Ackbar

Citation needed. I think you are conflating a bunch of different health studies from the litterature (and mostly done on the ground) and making up your own science. I would be stunned if there was a peer-reviewed article on the topic of cabin brightness and health.

lallied

I think the problem is there aren’t really any studies in the sense of clinical trials. But there are some peer reviewed journal articles that touch on the subject but many opinion based.

https://www.scopus.com/results/cited...77a839c8d88fbe

JustSomeGuy1978

One more question. Should the airline operate its flight in the time zone of its departure airport or its arrival aiport.

Most, all?, trans-atlantic flight depart in the evening/late evening when it is well into the night in europe. Under the operat as depature time zone it then makes sense to serve dinner and turn in (and yes it would be dark outside). Under the operate as arrival time zone it makes more sense to to serve a light meal turn in and the serve breakfast a couple hours before arrival.

Transpacificflyer

You want a series of published studies that fit your limited parameters. That is not how health science research works. On the specific issue of light, the key issue is the circadian system, and the impact of light upon the mental state, or sleep cycle or general health. In that regard, there are many published studies, all by reputable researchers, all from reputable research institutions and all peer reviewed. In respect to sleeping after a high fat/high calorie meal and ingestion of alcohol, the dangers and negative impact have been known and established for 50+ years.

The body of research has relevance to jet lag. For example;
- Duffy JF, Wright KP Jr. Entrainment of the human circadian system by light. Journal of Biological Rhythms. 2005 Aug;20(4):326-38..
- Wright KP Jr, Gronfier C, Duffy JF, Czeisler CA. Intrinsic period and light intensity determine the phase relationship between melatonin and sleep in humans. Journal of Biologic Rhythms. 2005 Apr;20(2):168-77.
- Gronfier C, Wright KP Jr, Kronauer RE, Jewett ME, Czeisler CA. Efficacy of a single sequence of intermittent bright light pulses for delaying circadian phase in humans. American Journal of Physiology Endocrinoly & Metabolism. 2004 Jul;287(1):E174-81. Epub 2004 Mar 23.

A more specific recent study that has a direct relationship to cabin light and to jet lag was that of Najjar and Zeitzer I am aware of it because it had a lot of media coverage as they were all over the TV for a bit being interviewed about jet lag and light. Dr. Zeitzer's a bit of science stud and a go to guy on the subject matter. The study examined the benefits of light and the applications to reducing fatigue (jet lag). The part I found delightful within the context of this thread is that the research highlighted the benefits of bright flashes, which I believe mimic the raising of window shades on aircraft that cause some folks to give their renditions of Lon Chaney's epic performance as Dracula when he was exposed to sunlight.

Najjar RP, Zeitzer JM. Temporal integration of light flashes by the human circadian system. The Journal of Clinical Investigation. 126: 938-47. PMID 26854928 DOI: 10.1172/JCI82306
Peer reviewed. Lead author was Raymond Najjar, PhD, a former postdoctoral scholar at Stanford, lecturer at Duke University's medical college and on staff at the Singapore Eye Research Institute. Dr. Zeitzer Associate Professor (Research) of Psychiatry & Behavioral Sciences (Sleep Medicine) and a reputable circadian expert. The research was supported by grants from the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute (grant 1RO1HL108441) and the Department of Veterans Affairs Sierra Pacific Mental Illness Research, Education and Clinical Center. Stanford’s Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences also supported the work.

I offer the above as an illustration that yes indeed there are many studies and published articles on the subject matter. The argument in favour of cabin light is based upon common sense. Sadly, one is left with the impression that a certain small demographic objects the most and they seem to be the people who were always more comfortable away from the light ,working on their cosplay or latest software hack. Active people with bright and engaging minds enjoy the delights of a daytime flight. Nothing is as beautiful is the view of the rockies and grand canyon on a daytime tcon. I am in awe of the Himalayas and the alps on many of my KLM/AF/TG daytime flights. Mind you, I see happy critters and smiles when I look out the window at the clouds, while others see demons, and angry FAs with bared claws. Happiness is indeed a beautiful blue pacific sky.