Curious about AC's policy on lights out on daytime longhauls...
Jan 10, 2019, 4:41 pm
#46
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Take my word for it.
Jan 10, 2019, 4:53 pm
#47
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Jan 10, 2019, 5:48 pm
#48
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Thought I would put this out to the collected minds here and hopefully someone from AC will see and respond too. Just back home from SCL. The flight departed late to YYZ at 11:15am, Lunch was served around 12:30 and then cleared by 1:30. Then PE and Y were plunged into darkness - not even any mood lighting - and the windows were centrally faded to black. So there we were (we were in PE) sitting in the pitch black all the way to YYZ in the middle of the day! I overrode my window 3 times to let in some light but each time after 10 mins it was returned to black. On my 4th attempt, it would not lighten up at all. So what gives? Is this the crew's way of keeping the masses subdued and undemanding? Once the meal was served, the ccrew disappeared until the snack (served in the semi dark). Then back to darkness! The light meal mentioned on the menu never appeared and no announcement was made about that. Our friends in "Signature Service" reported that their lights did not go out but the port side of the aircraft DID receive their second meal but the starboard side did not! It was a weird flight for sure but was wondering if this lights out issue was official policy. In case AC thinks otherwise, your passengers don't want to sit in the dark for 10 hours on a daytime flight....
Jan 10, 2019, 5:51 pm
#49
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Jan 10, 2019, 5:55 pm
#50
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Perhaps the reason was that the position lights and strobe lights at the end of the wing illuminate the cabin due to the darkness outside. I was travelling on LH720/A380 in PY in seat 50A at the lower pointy end a few months back and they asked me to close the shade as the only source of light in the immediate area surrounding the aircraft was coming from the plane itself. And this was indeed enough to periodically light up the cabin...
Jan 10, 2019, 6:17 pm
#52
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Wow...a hot topic indeed - the thread just started today and we're at 4 pages already!
As one who tends to have trouble sleeping on a flight (even in Business class) , I try to catch up on work on a daytime flight (usually TATL) and would much prefer the window shades OPEN. If shades are closed, inevitably, I have to turn on my overhead light...I feel that they shine not only on me but affect those around me; whereas if shades are open, there's enough daylight that I can work without the overhead light, thus bothering fewer people IMHO. Also, I tend to dim the screen on my laptop, and this is fine with daylight to see; but again, if working in a darkened cabin, I have to brighten my screen, creating a "glow" and I believe that disturbs those around me.
If I happen to sit by the window, esp in economy, I will, if requested, agree to HALF lower the shade if those next to me are getting too much reflection on their IFE screens.
As one who tends to have trouble sleeping on a flight (even in Business class) , I try to catch up on work on a daytime flight (usually TATL) and would much prefer the window shades OPEN. If shades are closed, inevitably, I have to turn on my overhead light...I feel that they shine not only on me but affect those around me; whereas if shades are open, there's enough daylight that I can work without the overhead light, thus bothering fewer people IMHO. Also, I tend to dim the screen on my laptop, and this is fine with daylight to see; but again, if working in a darkened cabin, I have to brighten my screen, creating a "glow" and I believe that disturbs those around me.
If I happen to sit by the window, esp in economy, I will, if requested, agree to HALF lower the shade if those next to me are getting too much reflection on their IFE screens.
Jan 10, 2019, 6:41 pm
#53
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Indeed.
Putting aside the question of just how we know what the majority wants on any given flight, I think the notion of 'negatively impact' is worth exploring. Is natural light in the middle of the day offensive to most, or just to a few? For every person who woke at 2 or 3am in advance of the flight, there's somebody who woke at a more conventional hour. I'm sensing more of a personal preference than selfless advocacy for community rights.
How does the price of a ticket affect the rights (or lack thereof) of any passenger to do, well, anything? Does a person who sits in 1A hold greater rights to sleep, eat or work than a person in 63E? I think we're on the same side of the window shade issue, but the element of how much one paid for a ticket, or which cabin one sits in, should have little bearing on the discussion.
Originally Posted by Canadian cow
But at some point, an individual passenger's desire should not be allowed to negatively impact the majority.
How does the price of a ticket affect the rights (or lack thereof) of any passenger to do, well, anything? Does a person who sits in 1A hold greater rights to sleep, eat or work than a person in 63E? I think we're on the same side of the window shade issue, but the element of how much one paid for a ticket, or which cabin one sits in, should have little bearing on the discussion.
Jan 10, 2019, 7:07 pm
#54
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They "should be open"? Says who?
And "People have eye shades use them!" ???
People have reading lights. Use them.
I'm shocked at the attitudes in this thread. "I'm going to do what I want even if it negatively impacts the vast majority of other passengers. My needs are more important."
And "People have eye shades use them!" ???
People have reading lights. Use them.
I'm shocked at the attitudes in this thread. "I'm going to do what I want even if it negatively impacts the vast majority of other passengers. My needs are more important."
They "should be open"? Says who? Aviation health experts, particularly those who have researched the condition we call jet lag. In addition, are the customers who book daytime flights to specifically enjoy the view.
And "People have eye shades use them!" ??? Yes. That is why they are provided.
People have reading lights. Use them. I do, but they are ineffective in the prevention of jet lag
I'm shocked at the attitudes in this thread. "I'm going to do what I want even if it negatively impacts the vast majority of other passengers. My needs are more important." LOL. That's your position, not ours. You are trying to justify the denial of light. And yes, the customers who have specifically selected a daytime flight have a reasonable expectation of natural light.
BTW, I am the guy who intentionally pulls up the window shade in the J rear cabin lav on the 787.
Jan 10, 2019, 7:40 pm
#55
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Putting aside the question of just how we know what the majority wants on any given flight, I think the notion of 'negatively impact' is worth exploring. Is natural light in the middle of the day offensive to most, or just to a few? For every person who woke at 2 or 3am in advance of the flight, there's somebody who woke at a more conventional hour. I'm sensing more of a personal preference than selfless advocacy for community rights.
Nice try at playing the victim.
They "should be open"? Says who? Aviation health experts, particularly those who have researched the condition we call jet lag. In addition, are the customers who book daytime flights to specifically enjoy the view.
And "People have eye shades use them!" ??? Yes. That is why they are provided.
People have reading lights. Use them. I do, but they are ineffective in the prevention of jet lag
I'm shocked at the attitudes in this thread. "I'm going to do what I want even if it negatively impacts the vast majority of other passengers. My needs are more important." LOL. That's your position, not ours. You are trying to justify the denial of light. And yes, the customers who have specifically selected a daytime flight have a reasonable expectation of natural light.
BTW, I am the guy who intentionally pulls up the window shade in the J rear cabin lav on the 787.
They "should be open"? Says who? Aviation health experts, particularly those who have researched the condition we call jet lag. In addition, are the customers who book daytime flights to specifically enjoy the view.
And "People have eye shades use them!" ??? Yes. That is why they are provided.
People have reading lights. Use them. I do, but they are ineffective in the prevention of jet lag
I'm shocked at the attitudes in this thread. "I'm going to do what I want even if it negatively impacts the vast majority of other passengers. My needs are more important." LOL. That's your position, not ours. You are trying to justify the denial of light. And yes, the customers who have specifically selected a daytime flight have a reasonable expectation of natural light.
BTW, I am the guy who intentionally pulls up the window shade in the J rear cabin lav on the 787.
I've only rebutted the people who have said it's their right to flood the cabin with light, with examples of why their arguments are nonsense.
Even the jet lag aspect - that very much depends on where you're coming from, and where you're going to. How many passengers on LHR-YYZ are connecting to another timezone?
It's the "I woke up at 2am and am flying YYZ-HKG where I terminate my journey and therefore we should all have natural light during the hours that suit me" that I take issue with, because it is completely selfish and gives absolutely zero consideration to anyone else in the cabin.
Sometimes it may make more sense to be bright. Sometimes dark. But the "always my way because I booked the window seat" attitudes are bizarre.
Jan 10, 2019, 7:57 pm
#56
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An open window shade does not flood the cabin with light. Pantomime season has ended, so no need for the over dramatic scenario.
Natural light is usually far less harsh than the cabin reading lights.
Yes, some people intentionally pay to have window access in J. Coupon users typically are seated in the J middle seats since window seats are the first to be booked by paying pax.
The AC airline FT reps had previously agreed that there should be light allowed on daytime flights.
A highlight of my t-con is to look out over the Rockies. AC Pilots used to mention the natural landmark.
It's time AC provided an official statement on the subject of daylight and circulated its position to its crews.
Natural light is usually far less harsh than the cabin reading lights.
Yes, some people intentionally pay to have window access in J. Coupon users typically are seated in the J middle seats since window seats are the first to be booked by paying pax.
The AC airline FT reps had previously agreed that there should be light allowed on daytime flights.
A highlight of my t-con is to look out over the Rockies. AC Pilots used to mention the natural landmark.
It's time AC provided an official statement on the subject of daylight and circulated its position to its crews.
Jan 10, 2019, 9:53 pm
#57
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Indeed.
Putting aside the question of just how we know what the majority wants on any given flight, I think the notion of 'negatively impact' is worth exploring. Is natural light in the middle of the day offensive to most, or just to a few? For every person who woke at 2 or 3am in advance of the flight, there's somebody who woke at a more conventional hour. I'm sensing more of a personal preference than selfless advocacy for community rights.
Putting aside the question of just how we know what the majority wants on any given flight, I think the notion of 'negatively impact' is worth exploring. Is natural light in the middle of the day offensive to most, or just to a few? For every person who woke at 2 or 3am in advance of the flight, there's somebody who woke at a more conventional hour. I'm sensing more of a personal preference than selfless advocacy for community rights.
Jan 10, 2019, 10:29 pm
#58
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I'd imagine for many people, myself included, despite all the entertainment options available, sleeping is still the best way to pass the time on a long haul flight, which gets boring really quickly. So I'd want to take a nap for a few hours. There aren't too many interest things to see on most flights anyways, and that's only if you are lucky enough to be flying over skys with no clouds.
Originally Posted by canadian cow
It's the "I woke up at 2am and am flying YYZ-HKG where I terminate my journey and therefore we should all have natural light during the hours that suit me" that I take issue with, because it is completely selfish and gives absolutely zero consideration to anyone else in the cabin.
Jan 10, 2019, 11:43 pm
#59
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And here I thought I was going to get flamed.
Just a reminder that the issues raised by the OP were:
Just a reminder that the issues raised by the OP were:
- Closing the shades on a daytime flight, not an overnight TPAC or TATL;
- FAs locking them out in the closed position, for the presumed purpose of subduing the pesky pax.
Jan 11, 2019, 12:45 pm
#60
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My reality on the 92 was that for the remainder of the flight (8 hours?) everyone in PE anyway was still wide awake in the dark.... nobody was sleeping because it was a daytime flight. 