RangerNS

There is a mechanism to re-enter the INTL bag room after one has left that area.

Adam Smith

If you're just happy to ever get to your destination and, at some point, get your stuff back, you're a very generous customer.

But would you be so forgiving if a restaurant took an hour to bring your drink orders? What if Amazon indicated 5-10 business days for delivery and ended up taking six weeks? You eventually got the goods you bought, but did you really get what you paid for?

I'm with ridefar here. Mechanical delay is one thing, but the additional baggage delay is totally on AC. They may not have any out-of-pocket costs, but the inconvenience is worth something. Does AC have to compensate OP and others who checked bags on that flight? No, but they should, and in the long term, offering some goodwill compensation is probably better for their bottom line.

After all, AC actually started getting more proactive on this around a year ago. My wife and I both received 20% off codes for a >2 hour delay due to 7M8 mechanical issues, which was not only unsolicited but may even have arrived before our flight did.

AC also offered me a $300 eMCO after delaying my bags for nearly a week a few months back. I was arriving home, so I wasn't necessarily entitled to any compensation (I never bothered to check) and I didn't incur any costs, but it was definitely inconvenient to not have all those shirts, shoes, suit(s) etc that were packed in that bag for such a long time.

How an organization reacts when stuff goes wrong can actually make a big difference to how people perceive that organization. In addition to being morally the right thing to do, by giving someone a small amount of compensation, the organization may not only preserve future business from that person, but prevent them from being a negative advocate.

For example, last year I had bad mechanical IRROPs with both AA and DL. The AA agent who was re-booking us was not only rude, but insisted in putting us on a convoluted route, all in Y, despite the fact that we had paid J tickets and there was an acceptable J alternative with UA and AC. She even told me that it was AA's policy to never re-book in J on another carrier, only Y. I was then summarily dismissed from the desk and told to call AA's 1-800 number if I didn't like it. There, I was initially given the same spiel, despite the fact that AA's tariffs clearly state that one is entitled to be re-booked in the ticketed cabin, and had to have a lengthy conversation with a supervisor to resolve it.

Similar situation with DL, and they were more than happy to do the re-booking in J. No inventing policies that directly contradicted the tariffs, no telling me to go call a 1-800 number, just did what they should do.

The cost to getting me in J on other carriers wasn't a lot in either case. And AC's $300 eMCO isn't exactly huge either. So which of those airlines do you think gets more business from me? In fact, I spent several hundred extra dollars last night to fly DL instead of an arguably superior itinerary on AA. And which ones do you think I have generally positive things to say about vs encouraging people to steer their business elsewhere?

So not only is it the right thing to do for AC to give OP and others some eMCOs or 10-15% off codes, it's probably better for their profits in the long term anyway.

CZAMFlyer

Is it though? Hundreds of minimum-is wage workers place thousands of bags on a myriad of belts every day, and we have a very rare instance of a mistake in a routine task. It took all of an hour to resolve, and resulted in no harm nor damage to anybody, save for some slight delays. If our OP missed an international connection that evening, then yes, some form of meaningful compensation is due without prompting. If nighty-night time was delayed by an hour or so, I don't see the need for much action beyond a genuine apology and a resolve to ensure a similar mistake is not repeated.
Sure. My point is: does it have to be monetary?

Perspective, people. Let's gain some.

Comparisons to grossly-delayed drink orders or package deliveries are more than a bit disingenuous when we're discussing bags sent to the wrong conveyor being delayed by an hour above the regular processing time. This isn't a case of 'eventually getting your stuff back'; it's a case of cooling your jets for 60 minutes. Frustrating to be sure, and never an experience anybody enjoys, but hardly worth making a fuss over. There's no debate when ascribing blame for the mistake: it's on Air Canada. As is the reason for the initial delay: a mechanical fault with the airplane, though these may be coincidental events with varying preventability.

So while I can get behind the notion of 'inconvenience is worth something', my threshold for requesting compensation stands a bit higher than those endorsing financial amends for a freaking one hour delay beyond what was expected. Go ahead folks, ask Air Canada to dole out coupons for x% off the next flight for every minor hiccup. Just be sure not to contribute to the inevitable fare increase thread that follows.

WaytoomuchEurope

@CZAMFlyer

Are you willing to tell me where you like to make dinner reservations? Thinking I can call ahead and arrange with the host team to let you "cool your jets for 60 minutes" and sit you down for dinner an hour later than promised.

You strike me as a rather intelligent person and I'm not interested in getting into a tete a tete with you (I'm sure you're far more intelligent than I) but sometimes you defend things beyond a point of sensibility.

OP is frustrated and has that right - I'm confident you or I would be frustrated if we were in OPs shoes also. I don't disagree that AC doesn't have to compensate in this case, but I think they should simply for the optics. From the way you're speaking I'd expect you to refuse compensation if you were in OPs shoes and it were offered.

CZAMFlyer

Again with the interesting comparisons. An hour's delay in restaurant seating (with reservations) is not akin to an hour's delay of a process that (according to the many tales told by our fellow FT members) ordinarily takes up to that long at YYZ anyway. You can't make reservations to have your bags appear at a defined time, and airlines/airports don't offer any guarantees, so let's dispense with totally unrelated analogies to the hospitality industry. Given that the bags went through the added hassle of going into an international belt, I'd say the outcome was about as good as it can be following the mistake.

I believe you've misinterpreted my position as one of defence of the airline. It's not; my position is that we need not expect to be financially compensated for every glitch we encounter.

I've admitted I would be frustrated, who wouldn't be ? Would I refuse compensation if offered? Perhaps not - my altruism extends only so far. But I wouldn't ask for it either.

yyznomad

@CanRulez

I think what I and @RangerNS have suggested should be good enough for you.

Adam Smith

A one-hour, or more, delay due to a very basic error by a human (or possibly computer? Although this seems unlikely) in AC's employ. On top of an already significant mechanical delay. And one could easily argue that even without the "one-hour" delay caused by the baggage misdirection, 45 minutes is already pretty long for baggage delivery, relative to what it takes in many other airports.

Would I request, or advocate someone requesting an eMCO/discount code for a 20-minute flight delay? Almost certainly not. For a total delay of 2+ hours (all of which would be controllable, in the parlance of the industry), especially when 1+ hour is due to a boneheaded error on AC's part? Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Really?!?

Delta 20-minute baggage guarantee

Alaska 20-minute baggage guarantee

Porter 30-minute baggage guarantee (scroll down the page)

Also, DL gives you an alert, via their app, when your bags have been loaded on the plane.

Those who work in aviation often seem prone to a tiresome belief that because it's a complex industry, subject to weather, dependent on both complex machines and fallible humans, etc, it's so unique and special that comparisons to other industries are useless. That's false, since many industries are complex, no two are identical, and there are plenty of principles that apply across many industries.

But in order to not get bogged down in your rejection of yet another specific analogy, let's just at the principles at work here. I think we can agree that it seems that OP is not subject to any conditions of AC's tariff or government rules that would entitle him to compensation for this particular incident, so it becomes a matter of customer service rather than a legal one. Customer service is a subjective and variable concept, from culture to culture, place to place, even person to person.

OP was subject to a lengthy mechanical delay (~1 hour). It then took ~1:45 from deplaning for bags to appear, of which roughly 1:00 was due to a total screw-up on AC's side. OP is unhappy and believes this constitutes bad customer service, which should morally entitle him to some sort of compensation, even if none is legally due. AC has not offered any such compensation and OP is considering seeking it.

You take the position, based on your views of what would constitute acceptable customer service, that OP is wrong. It seems that the vast majority of us on this board disagree with you - to us, the delay that OP suffered was significant and sufficiently within AC's control to warrant some compensation. That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion, and to not ask for compensation if you encounter a similar situation. But I don't see why you're getting your nose so out of joint that others have a contrary opinion when the matter is highly subjective.

KenHamer

The one thing you can reliably count on during Air Canada IROPS is that things will get worse and worse and worse and worse. And worse.

Not a fair comparison.

DL has computers.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Yer funny.


No.

But it needs to be seriously painful enough to Air Canada that they are actually motivated to do something about it.

''Cause right now it seems like an immaterial business expense.

s0ssos

I guess you never heard of the concept time is money?
I think that is the reason most people fly. I understand you can also drive (or take the train if you do not drive), but most people do not do that because they think of their time as too valuable.
In rural Africa people walk. I am sure those people do not mind what they have to stop walking for a car, nor ask to he compensated for their 'inconvenience'.

Transpacificflyer

AC does too. Perhaps you meant competent personnel and appropriate software? AC and it's IT is famous isn't? I experience it every time I try and book a flight that is more complicated than a basic RT.

In any case, what we have here is the black hole of baggage services. They are not a priority at AC, despite the BS statements to the contrary. The only motivation AC has to improve is if the poor quality carries a cost and at this time, there is no financial incentive to improve. Perhaps if Canada had air travel protections in place, there would be some encouragement. The only thing AC management understands are sanctions and penalties.

mellon

Exactly! AC just don't care, and the problem is the Transportation Minister has accepted AC excuses. The new legislation will make things even easier for AC to do nothing.

jasdou

Maybe a bit late to the party, but I am surprised by some of the arguments here. Also, I am curious as to how OP could have been enriched by endlessly waiting by a baggage belt at 1am. We are not exactly talking about a unexpected layover in an exotic locale here.

KenHamer

Yeah but it happened at 1 am.

I mean ir's an airline not a Dennys. It's unreasonable to expect them to provide full service outside of office hours.

SteadyAT

I read through the OP's baggage mishap last night, and had initially decided not to ignite the arguments further by commenting. But I see this morning the fire continues!

IMHO, if the OP was frustrated and felt inconvenienced enough to post about the experience here, then by all means, it does not hurt to actually take it up with AC. Especially if s/he still feels the need to contact AC today, after recovering from the ordeal. At minimum, there should be acknowledgement that there was a major screw-up. And potentially, AC may offer some type of compensation considering SE status.

The OP simply asked "Is this worth an email to customer relations and if so, what should kind of compensation should we seek? Has this happened to anyone else?"

I don't check in bags often. But several years ago, during one of the "polar vortex" weather spells, I DID check in a bag on a direct flight (YVR-YYZ). Most people collected their bags and a small group of people were standing around. It turns out that one of the cargo doors was frozen shut, and a number of the "priority" tagged bags were behind that particular hold. We were given the option to wait for the bags, or have them sent to us when the issue was resolved. It was night time but I decided to wait (since the reason I had a checked bag was that I was bringing a package to someone the next day on my mom's behalf). It took a while but our bags were finally "freed". It took an extra hour (amount of time AFTER everyone else had retrieved the bags and left the carousel area). On my way home, I was composing an email in my head regarding my frustrations, time wasted, etc. I was tired and cranky (by then it was close to if not past midnight). After a good night's sleep, I ended up letting it go since I ultimately did get my bag. It gave me a good story to share / gripe with my colleagues for a few days (some of whom encouraged me to write in to AC). Granted the "issue" in my case was Mother Nature and not human / computer error that misdirected the bags to the wrong belt in a not-easily-accessible area. If anything, my experience only strengthened my resolve to use carry-on only!

Whether the OP writes to AC to inform of the mishap, and whether the OP overtly asks for compensation, will be up to the OP - it is neither right nor wrong!!

AC*SE

But it does not involve going through US precearance. It involves being escorted back through the CBSA checkpoint. The poster was suggesting using Nexus to enter the arrivals area by way of US preclearance.