Why does AC not have registrations appear on wing undersides?
#1
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Why does AC not have registrations appear on wing undersides?
While I know that it is optional under Canadian law I'm just wondering why Air Canada aircraft do not have identification appear on wing undersides?
I do not see any other airlines with this omission but would have thought it an advisable inclusion given the number of countries AC flies to or whose airspace is routinely overflown.
I do not see any other airlines with this omission but would have thought it an advisable inclusion given the number of countries AC flies to or whose airspace is routinely overflown.
#2
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While I know that it is optional under Canadian law I'm just wondering why Air Canada aircraft do not have identification appear on wing undersides?
I do not see any other airlines with this omission but would have thought it an advisable inclusion given the number of countries AC flies to or whose airspace is routinely overflown.
I do not see any other airlines with this omission but would have thought it an advisable inclusion given the number of countries AC flies to or whose airspace is routinely overflown.
#3
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When overflying any jurisdiction, aircraft are not visually identified by their civil registration decals.
Air Canada can barely keep its fuselage & empennage decals from peeling, cracking or fading away; it doesn't need the hassles of more to look after.
Yes, it does (just the maple leaf roundel, not any text. Several other large airlines (Delta, Emirates, Virgin Atlantic, Qatar, Turkish, Aer Lingus all come to mind) preceded Air Canada in this regard.
Air Canada can barely keep its fuselage & empennage decals from peeling, cracking or fading away; it doesn't need the hassles of more to look after.
Originally Posted by 5mm
Doesn’t AC new paint job have their Logo on the aircraft underside? I would say the majority of airlines do not do this.
Last edited by CZAMFlyer; Jan 1, 2019 at 8:34 pm
#4
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When overflying any jurisdiction, aircraft are not visually identified by their civil registration decals.
Air Canada can barely keep its fuselage & empennage decals from peeling, cracking or fading away; it doesn't need the hassles of more to look after.
Yes, it does (just the maple leaf roundel, not any text. Several other large airlines (Delta, Emirates, Virgin Atlantic, Qatar, Turkish, Aer Lingus all come to mind) preceded Air Canada in this regard.
Air Canada can barely keep its fuselage & empennage decals from peeling, cracking or fading away; it doesn't need the hassles of more to look after.
Yes, it does (just the maple leaf roundel, not any text. Several other large airlines (Delta, Emirates, Virgin Atlantic, Qatar, Turkish, Aer Lingus all come to mind) preceded Air Canada in this regard.
As to Aer Lingus. I am familiar with almost every single airliner they currently have in use, particularly their Airbus fleet, and they all have their EI-XXX registration on the underside of the port wing near as practical to the wing tip. This location seems to be an industry standard. Can't really question any other examples you give but it's interesting that AC seems to have voluntarily elected to not have this optional identifier on their metal.
While it is true that airborne aircraft are not normally identified by their civil registration such identifier could be helpful in an emergency such as an airborne intercept because of radio and/or transponder failure or an accidental emergency squawk.
Additional info: Just checked Virgin Atlantic because I realised I had some small experience with them.
Looking at airliners.net, all the Virgin Atlantic metal in flight that had the underside of the port wing visible have the civil registration painted on them. Notably this included four of their 789 Dreamliners, G-VAHH, G-VDIA, G-VWHO and G-VZIG as well as the A330 G-VNYC.
Last edited by TemboOne; Jan 1, 2019 at 9:53 pm Reason: Adding data re Virgin Atlantic
#5
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Perhaps I should have been more specific. I am referring to the civil registration (such as C-GHPQ for fin 801) and not corporate logos.
As to Aer Lingus. I am familiar with almost every single airliner they currently have in use, particularly their Airbus fleet, and they all have their EI-XXX registration on the underside of the port wing near as practical to the wing tip. This location seems to be an industry standard. Can't really question any other examples you give but it's interesting that AC seems to have voluntarily elected to not have this optional identifier on their metal.
While it is true that airborne aircraft are not normally identified by their civil registration such identifier could be helpful in an emergency such as an airborne intercept because of radio and/or transponder failure or an accidental emergency squawk.
As to Aer Lingus. I am familiar with almost every single airliner they currently have in use, particularly their Airbus fleet, and they all have their EI-XXX registration on the underside of the port wing near as practical to the wing tip. This location seems to be an industry standard. Can't really question any other examples you give but it's interesting that AC seems to have voluntarily elected to not have this optional identifier on their metal.
While it is true that airborne aircraft are not normally identified by their civil registration such identifier could be helpful in an emergency such as an airborne intercept because of radio and/or transponder failure or an accidental emergency squawk.
You will also find the airline's fin number on the tail and the nose wheel door.
#6
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Oh dear, I seem to have upset someone!
Why exactly do you think AC should do this? You do know that all airliners have to have the ID painted on the fuselage near the rear door, right? As for the underwing being "industry standard", you say that EI has it, and based on looking at a few shots on Planespotters, so do WS and BA, but UA, AA and DL don't, nor does LH.
You will also find the airline's fin number on the tail and the nose wheel door.
You will also find the airline's fin number on the tail and the nose wheel door.
As to Planespotters, whatever that may be, I've never heard of them!
I have been on literally every Aer Lingus EI plane, right back to the old vintage DH84 Dragon EI-AFK, now EI-ABI, most recently a short hop on EI-DEN, and many many others. I do not need to go to picture sites such as airliner.net other than for research. But having been RTW a number of times and all over SE Asia on many 9Vs from DC3s to Comets, I have never once seen a civil airliner without an underside registration on the port wing.
Incidentally, regarding the nosewheel door identifier, you do know that's for the airline's own convenience. While AC uses the fin number such as 801 for GHPQ, other airlines such as Aer Lingus use a shortened version of the civil registration; EI-DEN being just DEN, while some countries abbreviate it to two letters.
I just feel that with the extent that AC serves the world having the under-wing registration included would be prudent step.
#7
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Why doesnt AC display the Reg on the aircraft wing?
I think the answer might be a bit more simple than youd like but i quickly looked through the CARs and I dont think Canadian operators are required to display the registration under wings like in other countries .
From section 222.01:
In the UK it looks like displaying it under the wing is not optional and that it must be visible to all viewers even on the ground:
My bet is AC doesnt display the reg under the wing because they dont have to while other carriers from other nations are required to display it based on their own countries regs .
Edit: Just reread your post and saw you knew it was optional. No idea beyond that why they dont display it .
From section 222.01:
(h) the display of marks on the bottom surface of the wings is optional,
Paragraph 1(2) of the Schedule says that the nationality and registration marks shall be displayed to the best advantage taking into consideration the constructional features of the aircraft; and shall always be kept clean and visible. The best advantage is the best advantage of an external viewer either on the ground or in another aircraft.
Edit: Just reread your post and saw you knew it was optional. No idea beyond that why they dont display it .
Last edited by C-FMWQ; Jan 1, 2019 at 10:53 pm
#11
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Originally Posted by TemboOne
Perhaps I should have been more specific. I am referring to the civil registration (such as C-GHPQ for fin 801) and not corporate logos.
Originally Posted by TemboOne
Oh dear, I seem to have upset someone!
Originally Posted by TemboOne
But having been RTW a number of times and all over SE Asia on many 9Vs from DC3s to Comets, I have never once seen a civil airliner without an underside registration on the port wing.
Originally Posted by Adam Smith
You do know that all airliners have to have the ID painted on the fuselage near the rear door, right?
Originally Posted by C-FMWQ
My bet is AC doesn’t display the reg under the wing because they don’t have to while other carriers from other nations are required to display it based on their own countries regs
Originally Posted by TemboOne
I just feel that with the extent that AC serves the world having the under-wing registration included would be prudent step.
#12
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My bet is AC doesn’t display the reg under the wing because they don’t have to while other carriers from other nations are required to display it based on their own countries regs .
Edit: Just reread your post and saw you knew it was optional. No idea beyond that why they don’t display it .
Edit: Just reread your post and saw you knew it was optional. No idea beyond that why they don’t display it .
#13
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However, there are still many cases where stairs are still used and since boarding is usually on the port side the under-wing registration is normally visible.
Just glancing through my files of ancient aircraft flown I noticed an oddity in contradiction with my previous statements. One of the first planes I flew on, an Aer Lingus DC3, EI-ACE (Dublin to London Northolt) had the registration on the wing underside, but the "EI-" was on the starboard side and the "ACE" on the port side, all in huge 3ft tall lettering!
Fair enough, but I think the requirements to be seen visually from below are antiquated; it's not a safety enhancement, and there are plenty of formal (en route nav) and informal (flight tracker app) methods to identify the aircraft in flight without laying eyes on it. I'm not aware of a valid, modern reason for this regulation, but perhaps somebody can enlighten me.
I'm not going to draw the ire of anyone by mentioning specific flights but we can all probably visualise situations where when a transponder is deactivated and VHF comms are unresponsive a prompt airborne intercept could be aided visually by under-wing identification.
With so much of my early travels being around the Malay Peninsula on DC3s, Fokker F27s, Comet 4Cs and B707s, always boarding from the ramp stairs, the underside registration was always there. More often than not it was my only source to log the record.
Whether AC should have the registration on the wing underside is very much a matter of opinion, but I for one would feel more comfortable knowing it was there!
#14
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Originally Posted by TemboOne;30597781
Oh dear, I seem to have upset someone
You have vastly overestimated my interest in this issue and misunderstood my question. You have asked why AC doesn't do something. You cited a very small number of examples and then referred to it as "industry standard". I questioned your defintion based on some counter-examples and asked what is your positive rationale for AC doing this other than that a couple of other airlines do it.
I don't particularly care one way or another whether AC does this. I'm curious to understand why you think it matters.
I think it is just a matter of common sense that all airlines follow this practice and certainly common throughout most of the world, except possibly the US.
As to Planespotters, whatever that may be, I've never heard of them!
But having been RTW a number of times and all over SE Asia on many 9Vs from DC3s to Comets, I have never once seen a civil airliner without an underside registration on the port wing.
Incidentally, regarding the nosewheel door identifier, you do know that's for the airline's own convenience.
I just feel that with the extent that AC serves the world having the under-wing registration included would be prudent step.
. In Canada, AC, WS, WG all opt not to affix registration under their wings; TS does so. Je ne sais pourquoi.
#15
Join Date: Dec 2008
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While I know that it is optional under Canadian law I'm just wondering why Air Canada aircraft do not have identification appear on wing undersides?
I do not see any other airlines with this omission but would have thought it an advisable inclusion given the number of countries AC flies to or whose airspace is routinely overflown.
I do not see any other airlines with this omission but would have thought it an advisable inclusion given the number of countries AC flies to or whose airspace is routinely overflown.
Given that neither the airline nor the regulators think it advisable - the question is really why WOULD AC do what you'd like?