Any hope for YYZ-TYO non-stop 787 (any version) service in 2019?
Dec 22, 2018, 9:38 pm
#1
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Any hope for YYZ-TYO non-stop 787 (any version) service in 2019?
It really doesn't matter HND or NRT, but connections are a hassle whether in YUL, YVR, YYC or ICN, they are even more of a pain than clamshell Y seats!
Why YYZ-TYO is stuck with the horrible aging 777s beyond me. I always thought Tokyo was a prestige route for AC, but perhaps not YYZ!
Only hope might be having the 788 permanently assigned to AC9/10 in place of the 767s - which would only be good if the through service YYZ-TYO via YYC is made permanent.
Why YYZ-TYO is stuck with the horrible aging 777s beyond me. I always thought Tokyo was a prestige route for AC, but perhaps not YYZ!
Only hope might be having the 788 permanently assigned to AC9/10 in place of the 767s - which would only be good if the through service YYZ-TYO via YYC is made permanent.
Dec 22, 2018, 10:04 pm
#2
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The 787 is not a 'new' version of the 777. It was not meant to replace the 777 by any means. Not withstanding the fact that the 777 seats a few more people, the 777 also has a much higher cargo capacity than the 787 and cargo can be a driving factor for the type of aircraft deployed on a given route.
Not sure why you call the 777s 'aging' either... the average age in ACs fleet is about 9 years, which the two most recent 77Ws delivered in 2016. The 777s are on the younger side in AC's fleet and have already had a full cabin refurbishment once.
I don't think YYZ-NRT nonstop will return now that AC has good slots at HND and the 777 enables them to transport lots of cargo to and from Tokyo.
Not sure why you call the 777s 'aging' either... the average age in ACs fleet is about 9 years, which the two most recent 77Ws delivered in 2016. The 777s are on the younger side in AC's fleet and have already had a full cabin refurbishment once.
I don't think YYZ-NRT nonstop will return now that AC has good slots at HND and the 777 enables them to transport lots of cargo to and from Tokyo.
Dec 22, 2018, 10:35 pm
#3
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I'm not sure I'd call 10 more J, 3 more PE and 89 more Y seats "a few more people" - other than that you are pretty much bang on. In low season they will sometimes fly the 77L to HND - passenger capacity is more in line with the 789 but as you point out has a bigger belly for cargo.
Dec 23, 2018, 12:23 am
#4
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AFAIK, the oldest 777 in AC's fleet is as old as Project XM, which means 2007-ish... am I missing something?
Dec 23, 2018, 8:11 am
#5
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Dec 23, 2018, 9:29 am
#6
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Absolutely agree: the 787 is entirely new metal superior to the 777s
I never intended in any way to imply that there was anything remotely in common between the two product lines.
What for us has been the superior aspect of the 788 and 789 is the air quality, the windows and the (average) higher cruising altitude. Almost every 787 series TPAC and TATL we've been on cruised above FL400 while the 777s are down around FL330-370 - and it can make the ride more comfortable.
However, the really serious problem we have with the 777s is the very poor air quality, particularly since the reconfiguration to 10 across in Y!
And it really doesn't make much difference sitting up in J. Even coming back from HND to YYZ in J on a 77L was a terrible experience, even though we were up front in 3A and 4A.
We were hoping that YYZ might again have some through 787 service to TYO - ideally replacing AC9/10 via YYC now that the 767s are effectively gone.
Thanks everyone for the feedback!
What for us has been the superior aspect of the 788 and 789 is the air quality, the windows and the (average) higher cruising altitude. Almost every 787 series TPAC and TATL we've been on cruised above FL400 while the 777s are down around FL330-370 - and it can make the ride more comfortable.
However, the really serious problem we have with the 777s is the very poor air quality, particularly since the reconfiguration to 10 across in Y!
And it really doesn't make much difference sitting up in J. Even coming back from HND to YYZ in J on a 77L was a terrible experience, even though we were up front in 3A and 4A.
We were hoping that YYZ might again have some through 787 service to TYO - ideally replacing AC9/10 via YYC now that the 767s are effectively gone.
Thanks everyone for the feedback!
Dec 23, 2018, 10:14 am
#7
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What for us has been the superior aspect of the 788 and 789 is the air quality, the windows and the (average) higher cruising altitude. Almost every 787 series TPAC and TATL we've been on cruised above FL400 while the 777s are down around FL330-370 - and it can make the ride more comfortable.
However, the really serious problem we have with the 777s is the very poor air quality, particularly since the reconfiguration to 10 across in Y!
And it really doesn't make much difference sitting up in J. Even coming back from HND to YYZ in J on a 77L was a terrible experience, even though we were up front in 3A and 4A.!
However, the really serious problem we have with the 777s is the very poor air quality, particularly since the reconfiguration to 10 across in Y!
And it really doesn't make much difference sitting up in J. Even coming back from HND to YYZ in J on a 77L was a terrible experience, even though we were up front in 3A and 4A.!
AC assigns aircraft based on loads, cargo, availability and other factors. Even if a route is considered a flagship route, I don’t think AC or most travelers view the passenger experience to be markedly different between the 787 and 777. If the 787 is this critical to your experience as a passenger, there are connecting options. Seems like the YYZ-TYO routes must be doing well, so AC is using the larger capacity 777.
Having flown both overseas many times, I’d characterize the difference in passenger experience as shades of grey, and certainly not as polarized as “terrible” vs. “amazing” but others who fly more may be able to also chime in.
Dec 23, 2018, 10:26 am
#8
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IMHO
It doesn't matter what any of us prefer for an aircraft on a route AC flies. I think we know that airlines deploy different aircraft for different "missions" based on many factors including pax, cargo (as stated upthread), as well as projected revenue on a route and so on.
AC switched out their 77HD (28 J, 450 pax) for the B789 on Oct 1, and as I noted in another thread, looks like the 77 is back on April 1. It wasn't because they ran out of 77HDs.
Seems to me the AC YYZ-HND is the prime business route and is doing well. I don't think NRT is as prime a business route but for those in YVR or YUL or even YYC, it's the only direct AC flight. The YVR crowd can also choose NH to HND of course.
AC's fares on the NRT route have been very high to NRT for a year now - especially in J. Either they are filling the planes with more non-Canadian pax or more pax in general who are willing to pay those prices.
AC has a nice set-up and great staff at NRT with the 3 daily flights. Only they know whether any or all of these routes are profitable and for sure they know that if cargo is not as important or if revenue from pax is not enough to justify a 777, they will continue to use other aircraft.
I am actually more interested in the overall future of NRT. A new terminal was built and soon NH will be flying the giant blue Honu-painted A380 and 2 friends on the NRT-HNL routes. But, DL has essentially moved most of their operation to ICN or rather let their partner KE handle more of the TPAC requirements. UA has also cut back out of NRT.
I am quite sure we all have aircraft we favour and some we avoid where possible (read the 7M8 thread), but really, if you want to fly or need to fly, your choices are to fly the aircraft AC uses or fly someone else. Much easier on North American routes, certainly less so on once-a-day TATL or TPAC etc.
It doesn't matter what any of us prefer for an aircraft on a route AC flies. I think we know that airlines deploy different aircraft for different "missions" based on many factors including pax, cargo (as stated upthread), as well as projected revenue on a route and so on.
AC switched out their 77HD (28 J, 450 pax) for the B789 on Oct 1, and as I noted in another thread, looks like the 77 is back on April 1. It wasn't because they ran out of 77HDs.
Seems to me the AC YYZ-HND is the prime business route and is doing well. I don't think NRT is as prime a business route but for those in YVR or YUL or even YYC, it's the only direct AC flight. The YVR crowd can also choose NH to HND of course.
AC's fares on the NRT route have been very high to NRT for a year now - especially in J. Either they are filling the planes with more non-Canadian pax or more pax in general who are willing to pay those prices.
AC has a nice set-up and great staff at NRT with the 3 daily flights. Only they know whether any or all of these routes are profitable and for sure they know that if cargo is not as important or if revenue from pax is not enough to justify a 777, they will continue to use other aircraft.
I am actually more interested in the overall future of NRT. A new terminal was built and soon NH will be flying the giant blue Honu-painted A380 and 2 friends on the NRT-HNL routes. But, DL has essentially moved most of their operation to ICN or rather let their partner KE handle more of the TPAC requirements. UA has also cut back out of NRT.
I am quite sure we all have aircraft we favour and some we avoid where possible (read the 7M8 thread), but really, if you want to fly or need to fly, your choices are to fly the aircraft AC uses or fly someone else. Much easier on North American routes, certainly less so on once-a-day TATL or TPAC etc.
Dec 23, 2018, 10:28 am
#9
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I guess only AC's 777s suck and all other 777s operated by other airlines for commercial use are all amazing?
I'm taking notes. Learning lots! I'll try to avoid all AC 777s going forward.
I'm taking notes. Learning lots! I'll try to avoid all AC 777s going forward.
Dec 23, 2018, 10:29 am
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Dec 23, 2018, 10:34 am
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Dec 23, 2018, 12:11 pm
#13
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AC 9/10 will run this summer. Whether or not it returns or not on a 787 in 2020 remains to be seen. If you really want a 787, YUL isn't much of a hop. As people have said YYZ-HND remains the premium route. Japan is encouraging premium airlines to use HND over NRT. The 787 is actually meant for thinner markets.
Dec 23, 2018, 1:31 pm
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That's great news re AC9/10
AC 9/10 will run this summer. Whether or not it returns or not on a 787 in 2020 remains to be seen. If you really want a 787, YUL isn't much of a hop. As people have said YYZ-HND remains the premium route. Japan is encouraging premium airlines to use HND over NRT. The 787 is actually meant for thinner markets.
I appreciate that there are a lot here in the forum who feel there is little difference between the 777 and 787 series and I can respect that it is all a matter of opinion.
Also of course I recognise that the vast majority of FTers are still working and travelling on business, and as such you pretty much have to accept whatever flights may be available to your intended destination.
What I would like to know if anyone can possibly enlighten me is what upgrades if any were done to the air conditioning and air filtration systems on the earlier 777s when they were reconfigure to 10-across HD status? Perhaps the latest pre-configured HD deliveries from Boeing are better but I don't believe we've been on any, likely because we've avoided the 777s as much as possible.
Dec 23, 2018, 2:13 pm
#15
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Thank you YXUFlyboy. That is great news as we will even choose AC9/10 ex YYZ via YYC on a 767 rather than a 777 non-stop YYZ to either HND or NRT.
I appreciate that there are a lot here in the forum who feel there is little difference between the 777 and 787 series and I can respect that it is all a matter of opinion.
Also of course I recognise that the vast majority of FTers are still working and travelling on business, and as such you pretty much have to accept whatever flights may be available to your intended destination.
What I would like to know if anyone can possibly enlighten me is what upgrades if any were done to the air conditioning and air filtration systems on the earlier 777s when they were reconfigure to 10-across HD status? Perhaps the latest pre-configured HD deliveries from Boeing are better but I don't believe we've been on any, likely because we've avoided the 777s as much as possible.
I appreciate that there are a lot here in the forum who feel there is little difference between the 777 and 787 series and I can respect that it is all a matter of opinion.
Also of course I recognise that the vast majority of FTers are still working and travelling on business, and as such you pretty much have to accept whatever flights may be available to your intended destination.
What I would like to know if anyone can possibly enlighten me is what upgrades if any were done to the air conditioning and air filtration systems on the earlier 777s when they were reconfigure to 10-across HD status? Perhaps the latest pre-configured HD deliveries from Boeing are better but I don't believe we've been on any, likely because we've avoided the 777s as much as possible.