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Old Dec 12, 2018, 8:42 am
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Feds announce new pilot safety rules

Interesting read. I wonder how many more crews will clock out before they get me home now?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gar...ions-1.4942385
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 8:54 am
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or how many will miss the runways in Halifax almost land on a taxiway in SFO or tail strikes in HKG. Reality its the ancient 320s and very poor pilot training and the new "sleep" rules are just union featherbedding.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 10:56 am
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Originally Posted by Symmetre
Interesting read. I wonder how many more crews will clock out before they get me home now?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gar...ions-1.4942385
Interesting indeed. While I expect there’ll be some inconveniences stemming from the inevitable adjustment period as operators get used to the new regulations, I’d much rather have a pilot time out than one fall asleep at the controls.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 12:32 pm
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We'll see what eventually transpires from this regulation amendment. There was certainly a lot of rhetoric & bluster emanating from the pilots' unions, although the federal government certainly dragged its heels for years on some simple and quick wins. How this will affect safety and airfares is still highly debatable, but one thing that's certain is that commercial pilots haven't seen such a positive job market for decades. The new regulations will only enhance the influence of those in CAR 705 operations.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 1:10 pm
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Originally Posted by CZAMFlyer
There was certainly a lot of rhetoric & bluster emanating from the pilots' unions
Still is. Look at how differently ACPA and ALPA responded:

"The Air Canada Pilots Association … is gravely disappointed that Minister Garneau and the federal government are moving forward with substandard fatigue rules," said the statement from Matt Hogan, chair of the association's elected council. "To say that we are profoundly disappointed is an understatement."
"We've worked diligently to secure updated, science-based flight and duty-time regulations, which for years has been one of the most important aviation safety issues for flight crews in Canada," said Dan Adamus, president of ALPA Canada.
"While the regulations announced today do not address all of our concerns and recommendations, they are a significant improvement over the current rules and will improve aviation safety."
Can you spot the rhetoric?
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 1:18 pm
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Originally Posted by ffsim


Interesting indeed. While I expect there’ll be some inconveniences stemming from the inevitable adjustment period as operators get used to the new regulations, I’d much rather have a pilot time out than one fall asleep at the controls.
that's why we have to pilots.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 1:19 pm
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Bolding mine

Originally Posted by mellon
or how many will miss the runways in Halifax almost land on a taxiway in SFO or tail strikes in HKG. Reality its the ancient 320s and very poor pilot training and the new "sleep" rules are just union featherbedding.
As a reminder, I was on that flight and I would suggest that if you think poor pilot training had to do with what felt and looked like wind shear, I would hope you could enlighten the rest of us.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 1:38 pm
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Originally Posted by ffsim


Interesting indeed. While I expect there’ll be some inconveniences stemming from the inevitable adjustment period as operators get used to the new regulations, I’d much rather have a pilot time out than one fall asleep at the controls.
Just wait for the cbc.ca article about a missing best friends cousins wedding because they took a last minute flight and the pilot timed out
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 1:55 pm
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Originally Posted by 24left
As a reminder, I was on that flight and I would suggest that if you think poor pilot training had to do with what felt and looked like wind shear, I would hope you could enlighten the rest of us.
I don't think the suggestion was that general pilot training and the specific tail strike were necessarily linked, even if contained within adjacent sentences. It may emerge that training or judgment were factors in the incident; we can't rule it out.

Sitting on the plane as a passenger generally offers little more insight than being at home when an aviation event occurs. As a pilot myself, I'm curious as to how a passenger can identify what wind shear looks like. A reliable and accurate - even if sideways - visual assessment process would be a very lucrative and enlightening course to teach..

Variations in the Wind Gradient as Viewed from 02K - a new ATPL Module?
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 2:17 pm
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https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...702598661.html

The new rules will significantly impact Air Canada pilots flying for Air Canada Rouge, who will be subject to weaker fatigue regulations than on Air Canada's mainline. ACPA had proposed that measures be put in place to protect all pilots flying overseas long-haul flights at night.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 2:24 pm
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Originally Posted by tcook052
https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...702598661.html

The new rules will significantly impact Air Canada pilots flying for Air Canada Rouge, who will be subject to weaker fatigue regulations than on Air Canada's mainline. ACPA had proposed that measures be put in place to protect all pilots flying overseas long-haul flights at night.
On the face of it that doesn’t seem to make sense. Why would rouge pilots have different federal rules than mainline?
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 4:25 pm
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Originally Posted by CZAMFlyer
I don't think the suggestion was that general pilot training and the specific tail strike were necessarily linked, even if contained within adjacent sentences. It may emerge that training or judgment were factors in the incident; we can't rule it out.

Sitting on the plane as a passenger generally offers little more insight than being at home when an aviation event occurs. As a pilot myself, I'm curious as to how a passenger can identify what wind shear looks like. A reliable and accurate - even if sideways - visual assessment process would be a very lucrative and enlightening course to teach..

Variations in the Wind Gradient as Viewed from 02K - a new ATPL Module?
Thanks for clarifying that I lack the expertise to determine what wind shear looks or feels like:

Originally Posted by CZAMFlyer
.....Sitting on the plane as a passenger generally offers little more insight than being at home when an aviation event occurs.......
My comment was my own and as far as I know, even if inaccurate based on all professional technical measurement standards.

BTW, I was advised later on from crew that it was wind shear. Feel free to take it up with them, or the HKIA authorities or AC or whoever.

Originally Posted by CZAMFlyer
I .....It may emerge that training or judgment were factors in the incident; we can't rule it out.....
It may indeed be a factor as well.

And with all due respect since you and I know each other.....
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 6:01 pm
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Originally Posted by tcook052
https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...702598661.html

The new rules will significantly impact Air Canada pilots flying for Air Canada Rouge, who will be subject to weaker fatigue regulations than on Air Canada's mainline. ACPA had proposed that measures be put in place to protect all pilots flying overseas long-haul flights at night.
ACR pilots & crew going to PTY from YYZ turn around right away and fly right back. Looks like that might not be occurring any longer
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 6:33 pm
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Originally Posted by 24left
Thanks for clarifying that I lack the expertise to determine what wind shear looks or feels like:
I said nothing about what it feels like. I stated it's difficult for a passenger - indeed a pilot - to see wind shear. It's got nothing to do with expertise or the lack thereof; it has everything to do with the fact that air is generally invisible, as are sudden changes in wind velocity & direction.

Originally Posted by 24left
My comment was my own and as far as I know, even if inaccurate based on all professional technical measurement standards.

BTW, I was advised later on from crew that it was wind shear. Feel free to take it up with them, or the HKIA authorities or AC or whoever.
Why would I do that? I have not doubted the veracity of the wind shear claim. I'm genuinely curious what you saw that led you to claim you viewed the shear phenomenon from your seat.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 7:26 pm
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Originally Posted by mellon
or how many will miss the runways in Halifax almost land on a taxiway in SFO or tail strikes in HKG. Reality its the ancient 320s and very poor pilot training and the new "sleep" rules are just union featherbedding.
How do the "ancient 320s" figure into this. Type of airplane has nothing to do with pilot fatigue. Human factors almost pranged the planes, not the planes themselves.
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