How does RM know when they screw up?
Dec 10, 2018, 7:04 am
#16
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The question about RM is a good one. My guess is that they are measured on an aggregate basis- load factors, revenue per seat and other such metrics. So it is probably very difficult to measure on a flight by flight basis, except with some random testing as others have alluded to above.
As per the specifc example of the OP, RM would know that X% of the time they are better off selling a couple of LMUs for a lower fee than holding out hope that 'n' number of seats will be bought at the last minute. Their goal is to maximize revenue, thus in the long term they are better off not carrying too many J seats till the day of the flight.
As per the specifc example of the OP, RM would know that X% of the time they are better off selling a couple of LMUs for a lower fee than holding out hope that 'n' number of seats will be bought at the last minute. Their goal is to maximize revenue, thus in the long term they are better off not carrying too many J seats till the day of the flight.
Dec 10, 2018, 7:18 am
#17
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A few things:
1) Day of departure (within 24-36 hours of departure) RM is not in charge at most airlines. The control of inventory (including upgrades, IRROPS related overbooking, etc.) switches to an operationally based team because they work 24 hours a day and are better equipped to respond to issues.
2) Even if you could tell RM they missed an opportunity in this case, nothing would likely change as a result because it's one instance out of many.
3) Most RM teams are unlikely to hold back two seats from upgrades (noting they did hold back one) for the off chance that two bookings will come in on the day of departure. The expected pattern is likely that a sole business traveler is making a last minute booking so holding one seat back is safe. Holding two seats that don't sell results in a chorus of complaints about not upgrading more people in advance.
4) If the RM analysts J cabin metrics as strong versus last year (or whatever period they are measuring against) then there's no motivation to change that behaviour.
Not saying it's necessarily the right outcome, but rather just how they are likely to be approaching the situation.
1) Day of departure (within 24-36 hours of departure) RM is not in charge at most airlines. The control of inventory (including upgrades, IRROPS related overbooking, etc.) switches to an operationally based team because they work 24 hours a day and are better equipped to respond to issues.
2) Even if you could tell RM they missed an opportunity in this case, nothing would likely change as a result because it's one instance out of many.
3) Most RM teams are unlikely to hold back two seats from upgrades (noting they did hold back one) for the off chance that two bookings will come in on the day of departure. The expected pattern is likely that a sole business traveler is making a last minute booking so holding one seat back is safe. Holding two seats that don't sell results in a chorus of complaints about not upgrading more people in advance.
4) If the RM analysts J cabin metrics as strong versus last year (or whatever period they are measuring against) then there's no motivation to change that behaviour.
Not saying it's necessarily the right outcome, but rather just how they are likely to be approaching the situation.
Dec 10, 2018, 9:08 am
#19
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Dec 10, 2018, 10:08 am
#20
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So, if we agree that OP cannot but two J seats for a flight that’s J1, are you suggesting that he should’ve bought bought one J seat for the desired flight and then another for a different flight before waitlisting this second ticket back onto the desired flight?
Dec 10, 2018, 10:53 am
#22
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Dec 10, 2018, 2:21 pm
#23
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You were responding to and quoting a post containing the words “I have no way of signaling that I wanted to buy two seats”... Your firm assertion that the claim was “not true at all” implies that OP can indeed signal this desire using the “waitlistability” (for lack of a real term) of a full J ticket.
So, if we agree that OP cannot but two J seats for a flight that’s J1, are you suggesting that he should’ve bought bought one J seat for the desired flight and then another for a different flight before waitlisting this second ticket back onto the desired flight?
Dec 10, 2018, 2:28 pm
#24
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Dec 10, 2018, 2:33 pm
#25
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Dec 10, 2018, 2:55 pm
#26
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A few things:
1) Day of departure (within 24-36 hours of departure) RM is not in charge at most airlines. The control of inventory (including upgrades, IRROPS related overbooking, etc.) switches to an operationally based team because they work 24 hours a day and are better equipped to respond to issues.
2) Even if you could tell RM they missed an opportunity in this case, nothing would likely change as a result because it's one instance out of many.
3) Most RM teams are unlikely to hold back two seats from upgrades (noting they did hold back one) for the off chance that two bookings will come in on the day of departure. The expected pattern is likely that a sole business traveler is making a last minute booking so holding one seat back is safe. Holding two seats that don't sell results in a chorus of complaints about not upgrading more people in advance.
4) If the RM analysts J cabin metrics as strong versus last year (or whatever period they are measuring against) then there's no motivation to change that behaviour.
Not saying it's necessarily the right outcome, but rather just how they are likely to be approaching the situation.
1) Day of departure (within 24-36 hours of departure) RM is not in charge at most airlines. The control of inventory (including upgrades, IRROPS related overbooking, etc.) switches to an operationally based team because they work 24 hours a day and are better equipped to respond to issues.
2) Even if you could tell RM they missed an opportunity in this case, nothing would likely change as a result because it's one instance out of many.
3) Most RM teams are unlikely to hold back two seats from upgrades (noting they did hold back one) for the off chance that two bookings will come in on the day of departure. The expected pattern is likely that a sole business traveler is making a last minute booking so holding one seat back is safe. Holding two seats that don't sell results in a chorus of complaints about not upgrading more people in advance.
4) If the RM analysts J cabin metrics as strong versus last year (or whatever period they are measuring against) then there's no motivation to change that behaviour.
Not saying it's necessarily the right outcome, but rather just how they are likely to be approaching the situation.
Because I wasn't sure if I wanted it, or if I'd wake up in time, etc.
That's way more effort for a scenario that, in this case, would have been pointless, as it wouldn't have cleared. I'm not going to spend half an hour on the phone for those odds. I was just wondering why they would manage inventory in a way that makes it impossible to know they've lost a last-minute sale.
Dec 10, 2018, 5:18 pm
#27
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I wonder if AC track people looking for two seats on a J1 flight at an hour or two out.
Of course, I doubt they can track the class people are looking for, at least on the app you search for seats not by class.
Actually I doubt AC has the ability to do this at all. But I wonder if other airlines do. Especially those that allow me to search for J only such as UA
Of course, I doubt they can track the class people are looking for, at least on the app you search for seats not by class.
Actually I doubt AC has the ability to do this at all. But I wonder if other airlines do. Especially those that allow me to search for J only such as UA
Dec 10, 2018, 7:27 pm
#28
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I'd argue a few things:
-RM knows they screwed up when the J cabin has any nonrev employees seated in it
-J4R0 going to J1R1 could have meant a few different scenarios happened. maybe a flex/latitude who had e-up'd did a same day change reopening as R1, and maybe AC sold some upgrades at time of checkin reducing J qty.
-Since it was within T-24 AC likely did not auto clear any from the waitlist. BUT in several instances I've seen JXR0 go to JX=RX close to flight time even while I have been waitlisted. Annoying as it means unchecking in, but I get to grab the guaranteed seats (and I don't get a tainted ML*1 boarding pass).
-RM knows they screwed up when the J cabin has any nonrev employees seated in it
-J4R0 going to J1R1 could have meant a few different scenarios happened. maybe a flex/latitude who had e-up'd did a same day change reopening as R1, and maybe AC sold some upgrades at time of checkin reducing J qty.
-Since it was within T-24 AC likely did not auto clear any from the waitlist. BUT in several instances I've seen JXR0 go to JX=RX close to flight time even while I have been waitlisted. Annoying as it means unchecking in, but I get to grab the guaranteed seats (and I don't get a tainted ML*1 boarding pass).
Last edited by expert7700; Dec 10, 2018 at 7:35 pm
Dec 10, 2018, 8:02 pm
#29
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I wonder if AC track people looking for two seats on a J1 flight at an hour or two out.
Of course, I doubt they can track the class people are looking for, at least on the app you search for seats not by class.
Actually I doubt AC has the ability to do this at all. But I wonder if other airlines do. Especially those that allow me to search for J only such as UA
Of course, I doubt they can track the class people are looking for, at least on the app you search for seats not by class.
Actually I doubt AC has the ability to do this at all. But I wonder if other airlines do. Especially those that allow me to search for J only such as UA
But even on AC.com, if you search for YYZ-YYC for 2 people... that's all they see. If the flight you want is J1, and you leave the site, they don't know you wanted J, and they don't know you wanted that specific flight. The fact that they have an 0800 and 2000 with space doesn't matter if you needed to leave between 1200-1500. It just means you went to WS instead.
Likewise, J0 two months out means they priced it too low.
I have no idea where those last 3 people came from, but for all I know, it went to J4 R4 and people confirmed upgrades.
Dec 11, 2018, 4:59 pm
#30
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