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-   -   'You're gonna lose your money' 'There was no booking, no confirmation' (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1941290-youre-gonna-lose-your-money-there-no-booking-no-confirmation.html)

Kaasschaaf Nov 19, 2018 3:58 am

'You're gonna lose your money' 'There was no booking, no confirmation'
 
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/ret...oked-1.4906073

Wondering what your two cents are. Any online shop or airline should automatically refund on a failed booking and I don't believe this man is very tech savvy. However, with any article where a disadvantaged customer is complaining, I think there's fault at both sides but of course it's always the companies' fault.

PointWeasel Nov 19, 2018 6:38 am

Are any of us surprised?

I have had bookings confirm with a PNR with UA/SA/ET without the credit card charge going thru, but an error message appeared on the website, so this is not unheard of. Additionally, I have had some AC agents be very dismissive of looking up a flight with a flight number and last name for privacy reasons.

So, I have sympathy for the guy.

Just today I tried to change seats on a confirmed and ticketed booking and received a 'Gateway Connection" error to the website, not once but twice. I finally gave up and called in. The agent was typing along and said "you know you can change seats on the website, sir".

montrealer Nov 19, 2018 6:45 am

Interesting the credit card company didn't help.
I would have thought that this would be a pretty easy "goods/services not delivered" situation.
Assuming, of course, that we are being told the whole story, and indeed there was no ticket emailed to him. "You charged me for a ticket you didn't deliver to me, for a service you didn't provide to me."
But heck, I know especially in Canada the cc companies try to wiggle out of this stuff.

Often1 Nov 19, 2018 6:53 am

The lack of action by the card issuer, e.g. bank, suggests that there is more to this story than reporting.

That's the problem with sensationalist journalism. There is no story here if there are facts which suggest otherwise and as a writer or editor, pressure from third-rate operations to report just what is favorable.

Stranger Nov 19, 2018 6:54 am


Originally Posted by montrealer (Post 30444977)
Interesting the credit card company didn't help.
I would have thought that this would be a pretty easy "goods/services not delivered" situation.
Assuming, of course, that we are being told the whole story, and indeed there was no ticket emailed to him. "You charged me for a ticket you didn't deliver to me, for a service you didn't provide to me."
But heck, I know especially in Canada the cc companies try to wiggle out of this stuff.

I don't see any mention that the guy even tried with the credit card. Which might well have worked. BTW I have no evidence of CCs "trying to wiggle out." At least not Amex.

What I find odd is no e-mail. But that does happen. Still obviously the guy had a case.

lallied Nov 19, 2018 7:10 am


Originally Posted by Stranger (Post 30445008)
I don't see any mention that the guy even tried with the credit card. Which might well have worked. BTW I have no evidence of CCs "trying to wiggle out." At least not Amex.

What I find odd is no e-mail. But that does happen. Still obviously the guy had a case.

This has happened to me before where I didn’t get an email confirmation / eTicket (had to go online and forward to myself) It’s also happened that something crashed during the final payment and it didn’t go to the confirmation page (though there I got the email confirmation)

So I guess it’s possible that both things could happen in the same transaction although it seems somewhat coincidental this is also when travel plans changed.

It’s not a lot of money and for the goodwill I’m sure it’s worth it for AC to refund

AC*SE Nov 19, 2018 7:33 am

Disputing with the card issuer probably would go not much further than the supplier demonstrating, "here's the e-ticket that was issued at the time of purchase." If there's a ticket number, the service was "delivered."

The issue seems to have been resolved where it belongs--with AC. They can put all the fine print in they like, but when they charge extra fees for using portals other than the web/app, they are probably going to find little support when they try to rely on, "not our fault if our site doesn't work," language.

rankourabu Nov 19, 2018 7:41 am

"A website malfunction"... with Air Canada.

Simpy impossible. I am sure we are all shocked.

Badenoch Nov 19, 2018 8:21 am


Originally Posted by Stranger (Post 30445008)
I don't see any mention that the guy even tried with the credit card. Which might well have worked.

There is a brief mention further down in the story about his attempts with the credit card company.


Originally Posted by CBC
In Neblett's case, his credit card company said there was nothing it could do.

What is irritating about this story is AC's response after the fact. It is highly unlikely this is the first time something like this has happened. Air Canada should be able to confirm through its systems that there was a problem or at least be more understanding that it can happen.

After months of trying directly the fellow only got his money back after he went to the CBC. The takeaway is to get a fair hearing from Air Canada one must first inflict a little public pain on them.

SteadyAT Nov 19, 2018 8:39 am

I feel for the guy.
I have had family calling me up asking me to walk them through the purchase process because they've encountered error messages / malfunctions as they even just search for a ticket.
For me, booking a ticket is something I do all the time, but for them, it's perhaps only once or twice a year.

Twickenham Nov 19, 2018 9:58 am

I think the greatest indication of the validity of the man's complaint was AC's reaction when they were contacted by the CBC: a full refund, plus a $200 credit to boot. Had they really thought they had a leg to stand on, there would have been at least some resistance.

Look, that AC's website (and IT in general) is garbage is one of this board's most established clichés. It should not be the consumer's responsibility to double-check, work around and generally pay (either in time, effort or cold, hard cash) for AC's IT failings. The only way AC will improve anything is if it costs them money.

canadiancow Nov 19, 2018 10:17 am


Originally Posted by PointWeasel (Post 30444960)
Just today I tried to change seats on a confirmed and ticketed booking and received a 'Gateway Connection" error to the website, not once but twice. I finally gave up and called in. The agent was typing along and said "you know you can change seats on the website, sir".

I always start those calls with "I'm having issues with the website, can I select some seats please?" I did in hopes that agents would escalate passengers being unable to change online, but I guess if it prevents any attitude from them, that's another benefit.


Originally Posted by AC*SE (Post 30445110)
Disputing with the card issuer probably would go not much further than the supplier demonstrating, "here's the e-ticket that was issued at the time of purchase." If there's a ticket number, the service was "delivered."

That was my thought too. From AC's perspective, he no-showed a flight. That's not "failure to deliver".


Originally Posted by Twickenham (Post 30445550)
I think the greatest indication of the validity of the man's complaint was AC's reaction when they were contacted by the CBC: a full refund, plus a $200 credit to boot. Had they really thought they had a leg to stand on, there would have been at least some resistance.

I'm pretty sure @expert7700 had this same issue before, but the agent on the phone was able to see that no email had ever been sent (check the PNR logs for a booking - there's a LOT of data there), and he was able to get a refund. Though it may be someone else.

Here's an excerpt from a PNR of mine (email redacted).


Code:

5-CREDIT CARD RECEIPT EMAIL SENT FAILED AT 0729 YTOSJSU14MAY
5-TO S*****//GMAIL.COM YTOSJSU14MAY
5-EMAIL RESENT FAILED AT 0730 YTOSJSU14MAY
5-TO ALL PAX S*****//GMAIL.COM YTOSJSU14MAY
5-EMAIL RESENT FAILED AT 0752 YTOSJSU14MAY
5-TO ALL PAX S*****//GMAIL.COM YTOSJSU14MAY


In this case, I knew it had been booked, and I flew it, so all was good. But the email never came. The system tried to send it at 0729, 0730, and 0752. So there's even some redundancy. But it failed three times, and the records prove it.

I suspect AC finally pulled up the PNR, saw something like this, and issued the refund.

Symmetre Nov 19, 2018 11:29 am

I really have to believe there is much more to this story than what has been reported.

RangerNS Nov 19, 2018 1:28 pm

Who do you have to know to get that kind of dump @canadiancow?

YXEGeordie Nov 19, 2018 1:46 pm

Hi everyone

Can totally believe this. Made a change to a flight pass booking at the weekend, when I pressed confirm I got the dreaded error message in red font. However, my Seat Selection Fee was refunded instantaneously, my CC was charged the change fee, but I was not sent any email confirming the change. The flight pass website won't let me look at the booking (I just get the same error message) and the flight pass app still lists the old flights. So I call my priority line and wait on hold for 25 minutes, and the agent confirms that the change went through. I check again today, the website still gives me an error message when I try to look at the details of the booking, the flight app still has the old booking, but I called in (only 8 mins wait this time) and got the agent to email me the itinerary and sure enough it has the new booking listed.

You shouldn't have to phone in and ask to be sent an e-mail confirmation of a change to a booking, but that is what I had to do. The flight pass app should reflect the current state of a booking, yet it doesn't, and I cannot access the booking on the AC website. I will likely have to call in to do my e-upgrade next week as I cannot access the booking details on the AC website.

So I absolutely believe this story.

Issues with AC IT shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who visits FT.

YXEG


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