Toronto - Mumbai route ending

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Old Oct 31, 18, 12:40 pm
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Originally Posted by songsc View Post
How are YYZ-DEL and YVR-DEL doing? My understanding is that there is less demand, but also less options from YVR.
I heard YVR-DEL is doing well. AC increased frequency, correct ?
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Old Oct 31, 18, 3:00 pm
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On the analyst call today with Q3 results they stated the YYZBOM route was being cut in favour of expanding YVRDEL and YYZDEL as DEL has been much more successful than BOM.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 4:13 pm
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Originally Posted by vernonc View Post
I heard YVR-DEL is doing well. AC increased frequency, correct ?
Yes. Announced a couple weeks ago: year-round daily starting in June.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...696921811.html
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Old Oct 31, 18, 7:18 pm
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Demographics. The majority of Indo Canadians who would transit YYZ are going to regions in proximity to DEL, not Mumbai. More specifically, Punjab is north of DEL and much better served from DEL. The two largest Punjabi ethnicity population centers in Canada are Vancouver and the GTA.

I don't think it's a swipe or dismissal of Mumbai. Rather, I believe the airline identified its most viable/profitable market segment. Pax connecting will have many options from DEL. Hopefully, the Aeroplan redemptions will improve too so that one can connect in DEL from BKK/SIN/KUL now without having to take the barebones Lufthansa or SwissAir flights that add a day of traveling.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 7:49 pm
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Originally Posted by vernonc View Post
12 is funny.
For 3, the frame used was the 789 and was upguaged to 77 so either they needed the 789 elsewhere or there was enough demand for 77.
For AI connecting traffic, sounds like AI will take any and all comers. They offer connections to AC from both DEL, DXB and unless I am mistaken from LHR too.
I think 1, 2 are more likely. I thought demand was good since I heard that EK lost some of the connecting pax to BOM so might have affected EK load.
EK is also going to 5 days from YYZ so perhaps they have capacity and efficiency to make the YYZ-DXB-BOM pricing more aggressive. Everything else is via DEL or thru multiple points in Europe with Star Alliance partners, predominantly LH.
I think 9W is killing them on price with the 1-stop AMS flight.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 9:57 pm
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Originally Posted by vernonc View Post
AC has the only non-stop from YYZ-BOM. How hard could it be ?
Think about it ..........
How about, "If it was so lucrative/easy, Why hasn't AI/9W jumped on it for all that juicy profit??"
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Old Oct 31, 18, 10:29 pm
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Originally Posted by CloudsBelow View Post
Think about it ..........
How about, "If it was so lucrative/easy, Why hasn't AI/9W jumped on it for all that juicy profit??"
Does 9W have a suitable aircraft for this route? They currently operate neither 77L nor 789.
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Old Nov 1, 18, 8:15 am
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Originally Posted by CloudsBelow View Post
Think about it ..........
How about, "If it was so lucrative/easy, Why hasn't AI/9W jumped on it for all that juicy profit??"
I think both AI and 9W have financial issues and likely a shortage of aircraft.
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Old Nov 1, 18, 8:16 am
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Originally Posted by sram View Post
I think 9W is killing them on price with the 1-stop AMS flight.
Well yes. But EK charges more and survives quite well and is increasing frequency. I thought the argument was that there would be enough demand for non stop.
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Old Nov 1, 18, 8:25 am
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Originally Posted by Transpacificflyer View Post
Demographics. The majority of Indo Canadians who would transit YYZ are going to regions in proximity to DEL, not Mumbai. More specifically, Punjab is north of DEL and much better served from DEL. The two largest Punjabi ethnicity population centers in Canada are Vancouver and the GTA.

I don't think it's a swipe or dismissal of Mumbai. Rather, I believe the airline identified its most viable/profitable market segment. Pax connecting will have many options from DEL. Hopefully, the Aeroplan redemptions will improve too so that one can connect in DEL from BKK/SIN/KUL now without having to take the barebones Lufthansa or SwissAir flights that add a day of traveling.
Well you are partly correct. Yes there are many Punjabi Canadians in YYZ who will connect in DEL. But they have already been doing that and has no effect on teh current BOM flights. There is also a large contingent of Indo Canadians from BOM/Goa/Pune and South India. Connecting in Delhi is less preferable. It is preferable to transit in Europe if going to BOM or connect in Europe/DXB if your final destination is elsewhere in mid/South India. I doubt this decision was based on loads only, likely due to profitability or aircraft utilization. There are just as many non-direct options to DEL yet the YVR-DEL and YYZ-DEL AC direct flights have increased in frequency. EK will be very happy with ACs decision. And QR would be too if they flew to YYZ.
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Old Nov 1, 18, 8:32 am
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Giving the flight length, I don't think non-stop is a good thing for Y pax. I have done YYZ-PEK in non-HD Y before, even that was too much, I always add a stop at YVR if possible.
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Old Nov 1, 18, 10:01 am
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9W sells and markets the YYZ-AMS route in conjunction with KLM and DL. They don't need the plane full to BOM to make money and they sell seats to AMS. The 77W has the legs to fly non-stop (7900 miles), but why would you? The India market is use to multi-stop itineraries. I prefer nonstop so you can get in 8PM-10PM local time. EU stop-overs get you in the next morning (1 AM- 4 AM). But I'm not your typical consumer as I'm willing to spend $400 to do that, most people to BOM are not.

Last edited by sram; Nov 1, 18 at 10:17 am
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Old Nov 1, 18, 12:45 pm
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Listening to the Q3 analyst call, this was referenced as a "seasonal suspension", we'll see if it comes back for Winter '19.
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Old Nov 1, 18, 4:09 pm
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Originally Posted by sram View Post
9W sells and markets the YYZ-AMS route in conjunction with KLM and DL. They don't need the plane full to BOM to make money and they sell seats to AMS. The 77W has the legs to fly non-stop (7900 miles), but why would you? The India market is use to multi-stop itineraries. I prefer nonstop so you can get in 8PM-10PM local time. EU stop-overs get you in the next morning (1 AM- 4 AM). But I'm not your typical consumer as I'm willing to spend $400 to do that, most people to BOM are not.
Personally, I prefer the early AM arrivals. I find it difficult to sleep from 3 pm to 10 pm EST, so the first night amounts to little more than sitting around, doing nothing and waking for everyone else to wake up.

I've done the YYZ DEL flight twice in my life. Once on the 343 in Y and once in the 787 in PY. Its not for me. The 787 PY seat is fine for that length, but the catering was terrible and the PY cabin was freezing - the flimsy blanket wasn't enough. Soon became apparent why - walk 20-30 feet back into Y, and its notably hotter. The crew did their best, but there's only so much they can do.

I'm back to doing TK J (days permitting), AC/LH and LH only PY one stops. I doubt I'm the only one. The direct flight is fine if you travel once in a few years. But the possibility of stretching your legs/showering en route is far more appealing in Y and PY. I'd pay a premium to avoid the direct flight, haha.
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Old Nov 2, 18, 8:20 am
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Originally Posted by yulred View Post


Personally, I prefer the early AM arrivals. I find it difficult to sleep from 3 pm to 10 pm EST, so the first night amounts to little more than sitting around, doing nothing and waking for everyone else to wake up.

I've done the YYZ DEL flight twice in my life. Once on the 343 in Y and once in the 787 in PY. Its not for me. The 787 PY seat is fine for that length, but the catering was terrible and the PY cabin was freezing - the flimsy blanket wasn't enough. Soon became apparent why - walk 20-30 feet back into Y, and its notably hotter. The crew did their best, but there's only so much they can do.

I'm back to doing TK J (days permitting), AC/LH and LH only PY one stops. I doubt I'm the only one. The direct flight is fine if you travel once in a few years. But the possibility of stretching your legs/showering en route is far more appealing in Y and PY. I'd pay a premium to avoid the direct flight, haha.
I totally respect your position, flying TK J blows the other options out of the water. I flew YYZ-BLR on AC/LH (via FRA) PY the week before last. I'd say the gap in the product is not very big between LH and AC; German service, Y food, similar seats and your nudged in the middle of the Y cabin. Given the number of 13+ hr flights I do each year getting from A-->B as fast as possible, and home, is important. However, In the India market, its all about price, pax will make 2 stops if they save $50, not interested in pre-purchasing seats, and certainly not interested in paying more to fly an AC 787. As I said, on this route, I think I'm the outlier here.
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