YYZ-LAS Why Always Rouge?
Oct 16, 2018, 6:51 pm
#16
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: I'm From Here
Programs: AC*SE & MM/*Wood Gold/HHonors Diamond/Marriott Silver/AirMiles Gold
Posts: 4,567
I know that ACr gets a lot of hate and the narrow bodies are indeed horrible. That said, the 763 in Y isn't really any different than mainline Y.
Oct 16, 2018, 7:11 pm
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Thanks for the replies. Fortunately we went with preferred seating (exit row outbound and row 14 inbound) so could be worse. Will see how it goes - keeping expectations low for flights and will make up for it at the destination!
Cheers,
Rob
Cheers,
Rob
Oct 16, 2018, 7:41 pm
#18
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: YQB
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,139
Oct 16, 2018, 9:09 pm
#21
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,568
Oct 16, 2018, 10:05 pm
#22
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YYZ/YUL
Programs: UA 1K, AC nadda, DL, WS-Nadda
Posts: 1,476
Oct 16, 2018, 10:08 pm
#23
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,323
rouge runs on routes where RASM can't sustain mainline CASM.
Oct 16, 2018, 10:25 pm
#24
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto, Ont., Canada
Programs: Aeroplan; Marriott Platinum; IHG Platinum; Best Western Diamond
Posts: 2,165
After one experience on rough rogue, we avoid it at all cost. I guess that's why we haven't flown to LAS with AC recently.
It's a scam that they charge the same number of ae points whether you fly AC mainline, or rough rogue.
It's a scam that they charge the same number of ae points whether you fly AC mainline, or rough rogue.
Oct 17, 2018, 4:06 am
#25
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: YQB
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,139
I have been flying out of YQB for several years and I am still trying to understand what you are saying. Prior to being operated by Sky Regional and rouge, the YYZ-YQB route was definitely operated by Jazz with Q400s year round. There wasn’t any ML aircraft in YQB, even in November, unless as I mentioned above if IRROPS occurred.
But we are getting OT, so I will just stop at that.
But we are getting OT, so I will just stop at that.
Oct 17, 2018, 8:20 am
#27
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,568
Point on the doll where the 20something FAs touched you in a bad way.
yyz-las is 1,943 mi, posted 4:53.
yyz-yvr-las is 3,077 mi total, ~9:30, Rouge segment being 992mi , 2:38
You would fly 1100 mi further and do a connection, adding 4:17 hours, still having a ~2.5 hours in Rouge, all to save less than 2.5 hours in Rouge?
yyz-las is 1,943 mi, posted 4:53.
yyz-yvr-las is 3,077 mi total, ~9:30, Rouge segment being 992mi , 2:38
You would fly 1100 mi further and do a connection, adding 4:17 hours, still having a ~2.5 hours in Rouge, all to save less than 2.5 hours in Rouge?
Last edited by RangerNS; Oct 17, 2018 at 11:07 am Reason: s/minutes/hours/
Oct 17, 2018, 10:00 am
#28
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: YQB
Programs: AC*SE/2.1MM, Flying Blue Explorer, BA Executive Club Blue, AAdvantage Basic, ANA MC
Posts: 2,550
I believe that jasdou is correct.
My understanding of the YQB/Rouge situation, which may be lacking in some respects, is this:
YQB ceased being a mainline station quite some time ago (IIRC, maybe 10 years ago). There were labour issues involved and the station was converted to all-QK operations. The new labour agreement allowed for a limited number of AC mainline flights into YQB for specific purposes including IROPS recovery and more importantly, cruise ship season.
We went from a mix of 319/320s to CRJs including the occasional 705. When AC picked up CP, we would sometimes get a non-repainted 737. Sometimes AC Jetz planes would be subbed in.
There was another change about 4 years ago which saw the AC Express brand attached to almost all YQB flights. QK kept most of the YUL and intra-Quebec traffic with its DH1/3s, while the other Express operator (Sky Regional) picked up YYZ. That saw the end of CRJs on the Toronto run and the arrival of the Q400s.
Subsequently, YUL flights have been shared by QK and the other Express operator. Lots more Q400s on YUL now.
There was a relatively long transition period (which only ended in 2017 IIRC) that saw the local senior mainline AC agents get assigned to work QK/Express. My understanding is that at the end of the transition many of the senior AC folks took packages rather than move to other stations (i.e. YUL). Some employees still commute for their work at YUL. A few decided to stay with QK. In the past 18 months there has been a widespread change in the team working at YQB. Unfortunately lot of experience has been lost.
YQB’s market has also changed significantly in the past 2 years: the cruise ship season now runs for almost 5 months, whereas in the past, the ships would show up for a 2-3 week Fall colours window. This has seen an increase in YQB traffic and the arrival of Rouge on both YUL and YYZ with full cabins on larger aircraft (319/321). The aircraft mix is completed with Express-branded E75 flights along with our mainstay Q400s and DH1/3s.
The Port of Quebec is now having to address the problems that have arisen from the sharp increase in cruise traffic. On Thanksgiving weekend, the Port was filled to capacity with cruise ships and passengers.
My $0.02.
My understanding of the YQB/Rouge situation, which may be lacking in some respects, is this:
YQB ceased being a mainline station quite some time ago (IIRC, maybe 10 years ago). There were labour issues involved and the station was converted to all-QK operations. The new labour agreement allowed for a limited number of AC mainline flights into YQB for specific purposes including IROPS recovery and more importantly, cruise ship season.
We went from a mix of 319/320s to CRJs including the occasional 705. When AC picked up CP, we would sometimes get a non-repainted 737. Sometimes AC Jetz planes would be subbed in.
There was another change about 4 years ago which saw the AC Express brand attached to almost all YQB flights. QK kept most of the YUL and intra-Quebec traffic with its DH1/3s, while the other Express operator (Sky Regional) picked up YYZ. That saw the end of CRJs on the Toronto run and the arrival of the Q400s.
Subsequently, YUL flights have been shared by QK and the other Express operator. Lots more Q400s on YUL now.
There was a relatively long transition period (which only ended in 2017 IIRC) that saw the local senior mainline AC agents get assigned to work QK/Express. My understanding is that at the end of the transition many of the senior AC folks took packages rather than move to other stations (i.e. YUL). Some employees still commute for their work at YUL. A few decided to stay with QK. In the past 18 months there has been a widespread change in the team working at YQB. Unfortunately lot of experience has been lost.
YQB’s market has also changed significantly in the past 2 years: the cruise ship season now runs for almost 5 months, whereas in the past, the ships would show up for a 2-3 week Fall colours window. This has seen an increase in YQB traffic and the arrival of Rouge on both YUL and YYZ with full cabins on larger aircraft (319/321). The aircraft mix is completed with Express-branded E75 flights along with our mainstay Q400s and DH1/3s.
The Port of Quebec is now having to address the problems that have arisen from the sharp increase in cruise traffic. On Thanksgiving weekend, the Port was filled to capacity with cruise ships and passengers.
My $0.02.
Last edited by NordsFan; Oct 17, 2018 at 9:41 pm Reason: Correction: Jazz = Chorus; other AC Express operator is Sky Regional
Oct 17, 2018, 10:01 am
#29
Join Date: May 2015
Location: YUL
Programs: AC 50K, *A Gold
Posts: 301
to be fair, lower your expectations to the lowest for the B-767 and you will be pleasantly surprised. I did NCE-YUL this summer and had low expectations, and the flight was great to be honest. The aircraft is old, and has lots of wear and tear but AC is pushing them to their limits, they are all paid off so it costs them almost net to nothing to operate them
The 767 has huge bathrooms in the middle of the aircraft, the seats are okay, old red leather, and not that bad compared to mainline. The crew is very young and friendly. for an 8hour flight, it was great I must admit.
The 767 has huge bathrooms in the middle of the aircraft, the seats are okay, old red leather, and not that bad compared to mainline. The crew is very young and friendly. for an 8hour flight, it was great I must admit.
Oct 17, 2018, 10:12 am
#30
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 34
My expectations are low based upon what I've read thus far. I realize it's only a five hour flight but it's frustrating that the only direct non-stops ex YYZ are with Rouge and Westjet. I don't believe everyone visiting Las Vegas flying from YYZ is looking for cheap flights through Air Canada Vacations. Not to flog a dead horse....