Woman says Air Canada unfairly kicked her off plane
Oct 11, 2018, 10:43 pm
#46
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: UA
Posts: 444
This incident - irrespective of rights or wrongs, argues strongly in favor of real competition in our airspace.
Whatever happened to the "customer is always right" approach to running a business?
Do all the delayed passengers on this flight have any recourse? of course not, but if you think about it, they should.
Whatever happened to the "customer is always right" approach to running a business?
Do all the delayed passengers on this flight have any recourse? of course not, but if you think about it, they should.
The majority of passengers want low cost (look at all the dreadful OTAs with the word cheap in them) -- and then business run on the priority of shareholder wealth maximization -- and look at what we have today.
And yes, I would be furious if I was a passenger on the flight. I would have been angry at the passenger, the FA, and Air Canada. And would have nothing but my anger and a late arrival.
Oct 11, 2018, 10:50 pm
#47
Join Date: May 2012
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This incident - irrespective of rights or wrongs, argues strongly in favor of real competition in our airspace. Whatever happened to the "customer is always right" approach to running a business?
Do all the delayed passengers on this flight have any recourse? of course not, but if you think about it, they should.
Do all the delayed passengers on this flight have any recourse? of course not, but if you think about it, they should.
Not that it matters whether you sit in Y or J but on two recent flights in business class, I found garbage, left over wrappers, used napkins in pockets and inside armrests. Pretty gross already but when I picked them up and handed them to the FA, there was no apology or even expression of sympathy. Just a "I will take that" from the FA - like it is normal thing - they are not even surprised by it anymore.
Oct 11, 2018, 11:54 pm
#48
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Without making any claims about mainline (because I have certainly required wet towels to clean pods), the incident in question was on Jazz. Jazz does not clean the aircraft between every flight. I have never found trash in mainline J upon boarding, but I've found it numerous times in Jazz Y.
Is this relevant to the situation? Not really. The trash is, in my opinion, an insignificant part of this. And AC pays Jazz, so they should set certain terms. But expecting a Jazz aircraft to be as clean as a mainline aircraft is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Oct 12, 2018, 2:53 am
#49
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: London
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"Are there supposed to be planes on the runway?" That was quite something. Not a huge fan of AC lately, sadly, so my business goes elsewhere even though the competition isn't perfect. We'll see, I'm tempted to try the herringbone seats once.
Oct 12, 2018, 6:25 am
#50
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
I don’t disagree but not suggesting suffering silently. Just complaining later when not powerless and at the mercy of someone who can have you removed from plane.
The only loser here is pax. Nothing will change because of this. The planes won’t be cleaner. The pilots will still be fatigued.
If she had just written in wouldn’t have changed either. But at least she wouldn’t be stressed, upset, late (r) getting home, and out of pocket.
And immigration might be clean but give them a hard time and maybe you don’t get in country or maybe get to spend more time than you would like in an interview room.
If AC had cleaned the plane, no problem. If the FA had taken the garbage, no problem. Passenger complains about not getting what they paid for. Big problem. Yeah, it's easier to walk away and send a letter to some automated machine. Will the FA ever hear about it again? Probably not.
As for immigration etc, for it to be comparable, there has to be a service delivery failure first. If anyone goes around picking a fight without service delivery issues, that's their problem. I dare say immigration folk are trained to higher customer service standards than whatever transpired here. Probably because they don't work in a culture that views Y pax with contempt.
Oct 12, 2018, 6:40 am
#51
Join Date: Oct 2013
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Whether they like it or not, front line workers with the airline are in the customer service industry. We don't truly know about the details of this event, but there is one thing I know; That FA should have taken the garbage. Full stop!
Oct 12, 2018, 7:58 am
#52
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But that's precisely the problem. Would anyone here pay for a meal, accept and eat it when it shows up undercooked, and then write a letter later so that they don't get booted out/go hungry. That airline staff can remove passengers for having the temerity to complain is a big part of the problem.
If AC had cleaned the plane, no problem. If the FA had taken the garbage, no problem. Passenger complains about not getting what they paid for. Big problem. Yeah, it's easier to walk away and send a letter to some automated machine. Will the FA ever hear about it again? Probably not.
As for immigration etc, for it to be comparable, there has to be a service delivery failure first. If anyone goes around picking a fight without service delivery issues, that's their problem. I dare say immigration folk are trained to higher customer service standards than whatever transpired here. Probably because they don't work in a culture that views Y pax with contempt.
Oct 12, 2018, 8:44 am
#53
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In fact I know that @ACYYZ/SD has suggested on FT before that your first action upon having a concern should be to inform the FA/SD, so that corrective action can be taken right away.
Oct 12, 2018, 9:40 am
#54
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canada
Programs: Marriott Plat; Air Canada E75K; Westjet Platinum
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Once the SD was informed of the garbage situation in this case, what did the SD do? Nothing? Agree with the FA? Did the SD intervene to de-escalate?
To compare my AC J experience to EVA in J, YVR-TPE, the seat and every inch of space around it was cleaned, wiped down, checked for garbage before take off. The standard for AC is just so low these days.
To compare my AC J experience to EVA in J, YVR-TPE, the seat and every inch of space around it was cleaned, wiped down, checked for garbage before take off. The standard for AC is just so low these days.
Oct 12, 2018, 9:43 am
#55
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 492
But that's precisely the problem. Would anyone here pay for a meal, accept and eat it when it shows up undercooked, and then write a letter later so that they don't get booted out/go hungry. That airline staff can remove passengers for having the temerity to complain is a big part of the problem.
If AC had cleaned the plane, no problem. If the FA had taken the garbage, no problem. Passenger complains about not getting what they paid for. Big problem. Yeah, it's easier to walk away and send a letter to some automated machine. Will the FA ever hear about it again? Probably not.
As for immigration etc, for it to be comparable, there has to be a service delivery failure first. If anyone goes around picking a fight without service delivery issues, that's their problem. I dare say immigration folk are trained to higher customer service standards than whatever transpired here. Probably because they don't work in a culture that views Y pax with contempt.
I agree it’s wrong - all aspects. But if you get a bad meal you can not eat and leave and not pay. The worst case scenario is going elsewhere.
In Europe incidents like this regularly end up in court with pax expected to cover costs of diversion as well as all the other issues. That’s a big threat if you don’t have witnesses.
In immigration / security I have had agents being rude / bullying / physically push me around. Fisticuffs with them ? Won’t help.
Should anyone have power they can abuse without recourse ? Of course not
Did this help? No.
Documenting and litigating, maybe.
This is conjecture though. We don’t know what really happened as there do seem to be some inconsistencies in story.
Oct 12, 2018, 9:47 am
#56
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canada
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Just curious, what would happen if 10 other passengers spoke up on the spot against this FA loudly and backed up the old lady and demanded that they don't divert the plane and told the FA to back off as they are witnesses. I think the FA would think twice about making it more than it is. Like a bit of passengers mutiny against this FA? Thoughts?
Oct 12, 2018, 9:52 am
#57
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Just curious, what would happen if 10 other passengers spoke up on the spot against this FA loudly and backed up the old lady and demanded that they don't divert the plane and told the FA to back off as they are witnesses. I think the FA would think twice about making it more than it is. Like a bit of passengers mutiny against this FA? Thoughts?
Proper way to deal with mutiny surely?
Oct 12, 2018, 9:54 am
#58
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Just curious, what would happen if 10 other passengers spoke up on the spot against this FA loudly and backed up the old lady and demanded that they don't divert the plane and told the FA to back off as they are witnesses. I think the FA would think twice about making it more than it is. Like a bit of passengers mutiny against this FA? Thoughts?
Oct 12, 2018, 10:02 am
#59
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Once the SD was informed of the garbage situation in this case, what did the SD do? Nothing? Agree with the FA? Did the SD intervene to de-escalate?
To compare my AC J experience to EVA in J, YVR-TPE, the seat and every inch of space around it was cleaned, wiped down, checked for garbage before take off. The standard for AC is just so low these days.
To compare my AC J experience to EVA in J, YVR-TPE, the seat and every inch of space around it was cleaned, wiped down, checked for garbage before take off. The standard for AC is just so low these days.
If you want to compare grooming standards on AC J to BR J on a 777 flying a 12-hour flight, fine. There's a thread for that. I'm sure BR will still win, but AC "tries" to clean their aircraft before those flights.
Jazz flights are intentionally not cleaned at every turn, making this sort of incident much more likely.
Likewise, there is no SD. There were at most 2 FAs. The only one in authority who could de-escalate is the captain.
Oct 12, 2018, 10:20 am
#60
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Well if I am the captain, if 10 other passengers are telling me that my FA is being unreasonable, I would question how "truthful" my FA is about the veracity of the need to kick off one passenger. Americans are loud and bold and they will stand up when they see B.S. and call out B.S. They wouldn't put up with this bullying by the FA. Canadians on the other hand will just watch and be quiet.