Woman says Air Canada unfairly kicked her off plane
Oct 12, 2018, 5:37 pm
#76
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I don't disagree - I expect a reasonable level of cleanliness, but the reality is, especially on express flights, there isn't time to clean every seat on the plane after every single segment. Planes make money for the airline when they're in the air, not sitting on the ground getting cleaned after every 90 minute segment.
Oct 12, 2018, 6:12 pm
#77
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I'll go out on a limb and suggest that the news report typed "there is NO..." by mistake and the letter actually said "there is AN ongoing prohibition from further Air Canada flights."
In the video we don't see the whole corpsec letter but we do see that there is a second page. Just a hunch, but just maybe the second page would be for her to admit guilt, apologize to the crew, or reimburse for fuel/labor for diverted flight.
We know she was banned, at least temporarily based on the refusal to rebook her on another Air Canada flight from Toronto
After all, what point would there be if it says you did bad, bad things and caused a diversion and financial loss BUT weren't charged by the police and you are more than welcome to fly us again anytime.
//Maybe wearing a body camera when interacting with flight attendants or ticket agents is a good idea. Of course airlines could just add body cameras to the 'prohibited at all times' section of the in flight safety rules.
In the video we don't see the whole corpsec letter but we do see that there is a second page. Just a hunch, but just maybe the second page would be for her to admit guilt, apologize to the crew, or reimburse for fuel/labor for diverted flight.
We know she was banned, at least temporarily based on the refusal to rebook her on another Air Canada flight from Toronto
After all, what point would there be if it says you did bad, bad things and caused a diversion and financial loss BUT weren't charged by the police and you are more than welcome to fly us again anytime.
//Maybe wearing a body camera when interacting with flight attendants or ticket agents is a good idea. Of course airlines could just add body cameras to the 'prohibited at all times' section of the in flight safety rules.
Last edited by expert7700; Oct 12, 2018 at 7:33 pm
Oct 12, 2018, 6:13 pm
#78
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In another example, my wife works for a local grocery store. Some grocery store GM's have started to ban customers/members for aggressive behaviour that includes simply disagreeing with the staff member and pointing out the facts (e.g. Milk is on sale this week but the regular price was charged from the point of sale system).
Another angle to the definition of offensive or aggressive language is that in some circumstances its not what was said, but rather who said it and the audience. Specifically, male loud talkers who are well versed in the subject matter can come off as aggressive to their female audience/recipients. I'm thinking of the Erin Weir example. Erin Weir is the Member of Parliament for Regina Saskatchewan who was ousted from the NDP caucus because he talked to loudly to female staffers and was too quick to express his opinion in caucus meetings (which was labelled as harassment).
Oct 12, 2018, 6:29 pm
#79
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There was an allegation of physical assault...
Oct 12, 2018, 8:04 pm
#80
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Even in Hudson's Bay, offensive language can include plain old arguing or simply disagreeing with the staff member. Case in point was an interaction at a local (Calgary) kids indoor play place. The place had just opened up so I took my daughter there on a Sunday afternoon. Get there and entrance fee is $14. Sign the waiver and get to the cash desk. the clerk asks for $25. "How does $14 entrance turn into $25" i ask. "Well the entrance fee is $16 during the christmas break, plus you have to buy our special green socks and the locker charge is mandatory" the clerk responds. Well my kid had on the exact same socks rated for bouncy castles but in the colour blue. The locker charge was never mentioned. "That's outrageous! I exclaim. The "outrageous" was considered a swear word, management was called and service refused. I would later learn the establishments unique rules and business practices was rubbing a lot of parents the wrong way. The new staff were having a tough time meeting expectations, so the owners took a zero tolerance policy towards any aggression.
In another example, my wife works for a local grocery store. Some grocery store GM's have started to ban customers/members for aggressive behaviour that includes simply disagreeing with the staff member and pointing out the facts (e.g. Milk is on sale this week but the regular price was charged from the point of sale system).
Another angle to the definition of offensive or aggressive language is that in some circumstances its not what was said, but rather who said it and the audience. Specifically, male loud talkers who are well versed in the subject matter can come off as aggressive to their female audience/recipients. I'm thinking of the Erin Weir example. Erin Weir is the Member of Parliament for Regina Saskatchewan who was ousted from the NDP caucus because he talked to loudly to female staffers and was too quick to express his opinion in caucus meetings (which was labelled as harassment).
In another example, my wife works for a local grocery store. Some grocery store GM's have started to ban customers/members for aggressive behaviour that includes simply disagreeing with the staff member and pointing out the facts (e.g. Milk is on sale this week but the regular price was charged from the point of sale system).
Another angle to the definition of offensive or aggressive language is that in some circumstances its not what was said, but rather who said it and the audience. Specifically, male loud talkers who are well versed in the subject matter can come off as aggressive to their female audience/recipients. I'm thinking of the Erin Weir example. Erin Weir is the Member of Parliament for Regina Saskatchewan who was ousted from the NDP caucus because he talked to loudly to female staffers and was too quick to express his opinion in caucus meetings (which was labelled as harassment).
Oct 12, 2018, 10:13 pm
#81
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I will tell you on all Westjet Encore shorthaul flights, the 2 FA and 2 Captains walk through the cabin after each flight, put on gloves and check every seat, and help pick up any left over garbage. They work on the same quick turn as Air Canada. They want to make money like Air Canada. Why all the apology for AC from especially our SE crowd for subpar standard and service from AC? And blame grandma for calling out their subpar standard?
Oct 12, 2018, 10:17 pm
#82
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on behalf of all public... The employer.
on behalf of the mall for which they work... The employer.
Seems to me one party doesn't feel it was solved, hence the news. I am not convinced mall security works for her.
Oct 12, 2018, 10:20 pm
#83
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I will tell you on all Westjet Encore shorthaul flights, the 2 FA and 2 Captains walk through the cabin after each flight, put on gloves and check every seat, and help pick up any left over garbage. They work on the same quick turn as Air Canada. They want to make money like Air Canada.
Oct 12, 2018, 10:29 pm
#84
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I will tell you on all Westjet Encore shorthaul flights, the 2 FA and 2 Captains walk through the cabin after each flight, put on gloves and check every seat, and help pick up any left over garbage. They work on the same quick turn as Air Canada. They want to make money like Air Canada. Why all the apology for AC from especially our SE crowd for subpar standard and service from AC? And blame grandma for calling out their subpar standard?
I'm not convinced having flight crew do the cleaning is wise.... One gets injured and the flight
irrops, inconveniencing everyone.
I totally applauld teamwork, but I don't believe everyone chipping in to goaltend works in sports, just as everyone pitching in to fly the plane or pick up garbage.
Maybe, AC pax shouldn't leave garbage in the first place? I'm quite careful to leave nothing behind, but I see the crap all over the floors in J on deplaning. What kind of example are we setting for Y folk?
I suggest airlines hire grooming crew, and if garbage found, send a cleaning bill to respective pax like cabs do when you puke in them. This could be a new revenue source to fund the groomers. Yes I know this would be frought with issues like garbage fraud, but... Still a thought...
edit: then corporate security could ban the idiot putting garbage in the pocket in the first place... It's vandalism, or at least littering...
Last edited by DrunkCargo; Oct 12, 2018 at 10:36 pm
Oct 13, 2018, 5:29 am
#85
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Oct 13, 2018, 6:29 am
#86
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Ya'll know that this thread is about granny, the FA, the garbage, the diversion, the police, AC security and the media 
We have this thread to discuss Air Canada's stellar cleaning capabilities - photos included, you know, in case someone thought we imagined the dirt
Dirty aircraft
We have this thread to discuss Air Canada's stellar cleaning capabilities - photos included, you know, in case someone thought we imagined the dirt
Dirty aircraft
Oct 13, 2018, 8:23 am
#87
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This dude says it was a Dash 8? Is that what she flew?
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2018/10/12/air-canada-bans-grandma-who-wanted-flight-attendant-to-pick-up-trash/
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2018/10/12/air-canada-bans-grandma-who-wanted-flight-attendant-to-pick-up-trash/
Oct 13, 2018, 8:25 am
#88
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This dude says it was a Dash 8? Is that what she flew?
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea...pick-up-trash/
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea...pick-up-trash/
Oct 13, 2018, 8:28 am
#89
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This has been mentioned a few times.
Without making any claims about mainline (because I have certainly required wet towels to clean pods), the incident in question was on Jazz. Jazz does not clean the aircraft between every flight. I have never found trash in mainline J upon boarding, but I've found it numerous times in Jazz Y.
Is this relevant to the situation? Not really. The trash is, in my opinion, an insignificant part of this. And AC pays Jazz, so they should set certain terms. But expecting a Jazz aircraft to be as clean as a mainline aircraft is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Without making any claims about mainline (because I have certainly required wet towels to clean pods), the incident in question was on Jazz. Jazz does not clean the aircraft between every flight. I have never found trash in mainline J upon boarding, but I've found it numerous times in Jazz Y.
Is this relevant to the situation? Not really. The trash is, in my opinion, an insignificant part of this. And AC pays Jazz, so they should set certain terms. But expecting a Jazz aircraft to be as clean as a mainline aircraft is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
This was Jazz, no larger than a Q400.
If you want to compare grooming standards on AC J to BR J on a 777 flying a 12-hour flight, fine. There's a thread for that. I'm sure BR will still win, but AC "tries" to clean their aircraft before those flights.
Jazz flights are intentionally not cleaned at every turn, making this sort of incident much more likely.
Likewise, there is no SD. There were at most 2 FAs. The only one in authority who could de-escalate is the captain.
If you want to compare grooming standards on AC J to BR J on a 777 flying a 12-hour flight, fine. There's a thread for that. I'm sure BR will still win, but AC "tries" to clean their aircraft before those flights.
Jazz flights are intentionally not cleaned at every turn, making this sort of incident much more likely.
Likewise, there is no SD. There were at most 2 FAs. The only one in authority who could de-escalate is the captain.
This dude says it was a Dash 8? Is that what she flew?
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea...pick-up-trash/
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea...pick-up-trash/
I've notice that in covering this news, many TV news outlets show stock/file videos or pics from an ML or Rouge cabin.
(and yes, some news outlets also mention a flight (not multiple) from YLW to YSJ)