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AirCanada misrepresenting fare class to *A partner programs?

AirCanada misrepresenting fare class to *A partner programs?

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Old Nov 5, 18, 9:28 pm
  #61  
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Originally Posted by hotpopcorn View Post
I suggest everyone bombards STAR ALLIANCE with this. social media/email/contact. only they can move AC to fix issue
A bit naive maybe?
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Old Nov 5, 18, 9:44 pm
  #62  
 
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UA mileage earning on AC (Air Canada) operated flights

The latter parts of this lengthy thread on the UA board are basically all about this issue specifically when crediting to UA. UA seem to always accomodate adjustments for these requests (and have done so for me, too) when provided with copies of receipts/itineraries showing the fare class booked, but YMMV with other carrier FFPs. My solution has been to book Flex fares partly to avoid this hassle, so congratulations AC, I guess your antics worked...

I have 32 segments on AC this year, about 1/4 in Standard, 1/2 in Flex, and 1/4 in paid J. All the Standard segments were intially credited as T on MP, regardless of actual fare class booked (none were STLAK fares), and all of the Flex and J segments were credited as the actual class booked. Not sure what happens with a Flex T fare... I booked one for the first time today, so I guess I'll find out... or maybe this is a good time to make use of 24 hour cancellation.

Last edited by Santander; Nov 5, 18 at 9:59 pm
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Old Nov 5, 18, 11:22 pm
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by Santander View Post

My solution has been to book Flex fares partly to avoid this hassle, so congratulations AC, I guess your antics worked...

I have 32 segments on AC this year, about 1/4 in Standard, 1/2 in Flex, and 1/4 in paid J. All the Standard segments were intially credited as T on MP, regardless of actual fare class booked (none were STLAK fares), and all of the Flex and J segments were credited as the actual class booked. Not sure what happens with a Flex T fare... I booked one for the first time today, so I guess I'll find out... or maybe this is a good time to make use of 24 hour cancellation.
Unfortunately, I have been booking on Flex fares as well and still getting the T credit. However it seems to only affect G fares.

Which brings to my other question...Is G fare considered a Flex fare? I ask because AC's Manage My Booking section shows it as Economy - Flex. But it's weird that only G is crediting as T for me. (all other codes such as Q are OK)
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Old Nov 5, 18, 11:23 pm
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
I suspect this one will take a long time to get fixed...

Key point: one would imagine AC is not terribly interested in giving more miles for lower fares to other FFPs than the Aeroplan equivalent.

One would imagine (or at least hope) that they did inform the various partners. Who should then go on and publish the new rules.

But are these partners equipped to deal with these? If their system is strictly based upon the booking code, likely not. So are they going to introduce major changes just to cater to their half dozen members who fly AC once on a blue moon? Likewise, I don't see AC doing the work for them.

Bottom line, no one is particularly great need to care. Just find some workaround that 95% of the folks will take as is, and with the die hard complainers, playing the blame game is easy. Just make the thing into a zero miles bin.
I suspect another reason is that since AC dominates the domestic market, they are less reluctant to do anything about it.
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Old Nov 5, 18, 11:32 pm
  #65  
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Originally Posted by secretalcoholic View Post
Unfortunately, I have been booking on Flex fares as well and still getting the T credit. However it seems to only affect G fares.

Which brings to my other question...Is G fare considered a Flex fare? I ask because AC's Manage My Booking section shows it as Economy - Flex. But it's weird that only G is crediting as T for me. (all other codes such as Q are OK)
With branded fares, depending on the route, G fare class could be more than one fare category (Flex, Standard, etc.).
You need to know the fare basis to get a better understanding if the "Flex" is actually truly "Flex". Remind me again, which flight/route was this for that you didn't get credit for?
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Old Nov 5, 18, 11:49 pm
  #66  
 
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Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
With branded fares, depending on the route, G fare class could be more than one fare category (Flex, Standard, etc.).
You need to know the fare basis to get a better understanding if the "Flex" is actually truly "Flex". Remind me again, which flight/route was this for that you didn't get credit for?
Oops, that's correct. I remember you mentioning it a while back. Sorry, amnesia

YYZ-YUL on AC 402.
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Old Nov 6, 18, 8:24 am
  #67  
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Originally Posted by secretalcoholic View Post
Oops, that's correct. I remember you mentioning it a while back. Sorry, amnesia



YYZ-YUL on AC 402.
@secretalcoholic

I did a mock Flex fare AC402 booking for December 5, 2018:

It is a 14-day advanced G fare class and the fare basis is indeed a Flex fare basis showing "G14ULAFL" with the "FL" ending/"suffix".

A true Tango fare basis would end in "TG" instead of "FL".

I'm not necessarily saying that your "G" fare class would have the same "FL" basis as I show above, but this is something you'll need to (re)confirm on your end.


Penalties:
From: Toronto, YYZ - Pearson Int'l
To: Montreal, YUL - Trudeau
Fare basis code: G14ULAFL

FCL: G14ULAFL TRF: 191 RULE: ACFR BK: G

PTC: ADT-ADULT FTC: SIP-ONEWAY INSTANT PURCHASE
PE.PENALTIES

BASE FARE
FOR ONE WAY G14ULAFL TYPE FARES


CANCELLATIONS

TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE.

NOTE -
FLEX -FL TICKET/VALIDITY FORFEIT POLICY-

FULLY UNUSED TICKETS MAY BE REBOOKED AND TRAVEL
COMMENCED UP TO ONE YEAR FROM ORIGINAL ISSUE DATE.

PARTIALLY USED TICKET MAY BE REBOOKED AND TRAVEL
COMPLETED UP TO ONE YEAR FROM ORIGINAL OUTBOUND

DATE.
FLIGHT SEGMENT OR SEGMENTS MUST BE CANCELLED ON OR


PRIOR TO ORIGINAL DEPARTURE DATE. FAILURE TO
CANCEL FLIGHT SEGMENT OR SEGMENTS PRIOR TO

DEPARTURE DATE WILL RESULT IN COUPON OR COUPONS
FORFEIT AND COUPON WILL HAVE NO VALUE.

--------------------------------------------------
WAIVED FOR THE DEATH OF THE PASSENGER OR PASSENGER

FAMILY MEMBER OR PASSENGERS TRAVELING COMPANION.
DOCUMENTATION REQUIRED.

IN THE EVENT PSGRS ARE CALLED TO JURY DUTY OR ARE
SUBPOENAED FULL REFUND WILL APPLY UPON

PRESENTATION OF JURY SUMMONS OR SUBPOENA PROVIDED
FLIGHT SEGMENTS ARE CANCELLED PRIOR TO TICKETED

DEPARTURE DATE.

CHANGES


ANY TIME
CHARGE CAD 50.00 FOR REISSUE/REVALIDATION.

NOTE -
CHANGE FEE IS APPLICABLE PER FARE COMPONENT.

CHARGE CAD25 FOR CHANGES AND TICKET

REISSUES COMPLETED 61 DAYS OR MORE BEFORE
ORIGINAL DEPARTURE DATE OF CHANGED FARE COMPONENT.

OTHERWISE CHARGE REGULAR PENALTY FEE OF CAD50 FOR
FOR CHANGES AND TICKET REISSUES COMPLETED 60 DAYS

OR LESS FROM ORIGINAL DEPARTURE DATE OF CHANGED
FARE COMPONENT.

CHANGE FEE IS APPLICABLE PER FARE COMPONENT.
CHANGE FEE-

COLLECT FOR VOLUNTARY CHANGES IN ACCORDANCE WITH
THE FOLLOWING-

A. NEW BASE FARE AMOUNT MUST BE RECALCULATED
USING CURRENT AND APPLICABLE FARES IN EFFECT AT

THE DATE OF ISSUANCE
B. IF THE NEW FLIGHT SEGMENT IS OF EQUAL OR

HIGHER VALUE THE FARE DIFFERENCE MUST BE PAID.
C. IF NEW FLIGHT SEGMENT IS OF LOWER VALUE THE

FARE DIFFERENCE IS LOST AND NO REFUND WILL APPLY.
D. FLIGHT COUPONS MUST BE USED IN SEQUENCE.

CHANGES IN THE SEQUENCE OF ANY FLIGHT COUPON WILL
RESULT IN A TICKET REISSUE.

-PLEASE NOTE-

IF A FARE IS COMBINED WITH HALF A ROUND TRIP FARE
IN A CIRCLE TRIP - THE HIGHEST CHANGE FEE AND THE

MOST RESTRICTIVE FARE RULE APPLIES TO THE ENTIRE
TICKET.

--------------------------------------------------
NAME CHANGES - FEE OF CAD 60.00

PERMITTED ONLY FOR FULLY UNUSED TICKETS ON
014 TICKET STOCK ON AC - AC ROUGE AND

AC EXPRESS OPERATED FLIGHTS.
REISSUE MUST BE DONE BY AC CALL CENTERS ONLY.

FOR BOOKINGS MADE WITH AC DIRECTLY - CONTACT AC
ANYTIME.

FOR BOOKINGS MADE WITH TRAVEL AGENCY - CONTACT AC
WITHIN 3 BUSINESS DAYS OF DEPARTURE.

NOT PERMITTED FOR PARTIALLY USED TICKETS.
NOT PERMITTED FOR TICKETS WITH INTERNATIONAL

ITINERARIES.
NOT PERMITTED FOR TICKETS WITH AC FLIGHTS

OPERATED BY OTHER CARRIERS.
--------------------------------------------------

AIRPORT SAME DAY CONFIRMED CHANGE FEE-

PASSENGERS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND
TICKETS MAY CONFIRM EARLIER/LATER SAME DAY FLIGHTS

BETWEEN THE SAME ORIGIN/DESTINATION/STOPOVER
POINTS FOR A NONREFUNDABLE FEE OF CAD75/USD75.

FOR ROUTES BETWEEN YOW/YMQ-YTO AND BETWEEN
YYC/YEA/YVR ON FLEX FARES ONLY PASSENGERS HOLDING

CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND TICKETS MAY STANDBY
FOR EARLIER SAME DAY FLIGHTS BETWEEN THE SAME

ORIGIN/DESTINATION AT NO CHARGE.
NOTE-

A. SEAT INVENTORY MUST BE AVAILABLE IN THE CABIN
APPLICABLE TO THE FARE CHARGED.

B. POLICY APPLIES FOR PASSENGERS NEXT OUTBOUND OR
INBOUND ONLY. CHANGES CANNOT BE MADE TO INBOUND

SEGMENTS BEFORE THE ORIGINAL TICKTED OUTBOUND HAS
BEEN FLOWN.

C. CONFIRMED CHANGE MAY ONLY BE MADE AT THE
AIRPORT ON THE DAY OF THE FLIGHT AND PRIOR TO THE

ORIGINAL DEPARTURE TIME.
D. REGULAR FARE RULES APPLY - CHANGE FEES/ADCOL-

FOR ANY CHANGES WHICH DO NOT QUALIFY FOR THE

AIRPORT SAME DAY CONFIRMED CHANGE FEE.
E. SAMEDAY STANDBY NOT ALLOWED EXCEPT FOR FLEX

TYPE FARES BETWEEN YOW/YMQ AND YTO AND BETWEEN
YYC/YEA/YVR AS NOTED ABOVE.

--------------------------------------------------
TICKET UPGRADE - PASSENGERS UPGRADING TO A

BUSINESS CLASS FARE J-/C-/D-/Z-/P- OR PREMIUM
ECONOMY FARES O-/E-/N- WILL NOT BE

ASSESSED THE CHANGE FEE.
ALL OTHER RULES MUST BE MET.

ANY NONREFUNDABLE AMOUNT REMAINS NONREFUNDABLE.
--------------------------------------------------

CHANGE FEES ARE SUBJECT TO THE SAME TAXES AS THE
ORIGINAL TICKET.

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Old Nov 6, 18, 10:18 am
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Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
@secretalcoholic

I did a mock Flex fare AC402 booking for December 5, 2018:

It is a 14-day advanced G fare class and the fare basis is indeed a Flex fare basis showing "G14ULAFL" with the "FL" ending/"suffix".

A true Tango fare basis would end in "TG" instead of "FL".

I'm not necessarily saying that your "G" fare class would have the same "FL" basis as I show above, but this is something you'll need to (re)confirm on your end.


Penalties:
From: Toronto, YYZ - Pearson Int'l
To: Montreal, YUL - Trudeau
Fare basis code: G14ULAFL
I too like the concept of the branded fares .... as others have noted, it allows me to get higher miles (comfort, for example) at a lower price than was available before.

However ... AC have managed to make the whole thing excessively complex, and their approach seems to break many external systems. Case in point, although my company's concur finally displays the multiple fare options (after months of not doing so) ... it still can't manage to book tickets correctly in the chosen fare basis group. Clearly there is an error somewhere, but whether the problem is in concur itself (unlikely), my company's configuration of concur (possible), or just the downstream amex ticketing agents who still seem to get their fingers in the mix .... it doesn't really matter; my point is that all other airlines use the fare class to determine things like mileage accumulation, and AC seems to be alone in going their own way - and complexity and confusion is the result.

Heck, look at the eUpgrade requirements for the mock fare that @yyznomad investigated.


Is it reasonable to assume that *partners will have equivalently complex mapping rules into their own system?

No wonder there are problems - I'm sure in tools, integrations, and simply in customer understanding.
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Old Nov 6, 18, 10:42 am
  #69  
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Originally Posted by canopus27 View Post
I too like the concept of the branded fares .... as others have noted, it allows me to get higher miles (comfort, for example) at a lower price than was available before.

However ... AC have managed to make the whole thing excessively complex, and their approach seems to break many external systems. Case in point, although my company's concur finally displays the multiple fare options (after months of not doing so) ... it still can't manage to book tickets correctly in the chosen fare basis group. Clearly there is an error somewhere, but whether the problem is in concur itself (unlikely), my company's configuration of concur (possible), or just the downstream amex ticketing agents who still seem to get their fingers in the mix .... it doesn't really matter; my point is that all other airlines use the fare class to determine things like mileage accumulation, and AC seems to be alone in going their own way - and complexity and confusion is the result.

Heck, look at the eUpgrade requirements for the mock fare that @yyznomad investigated.


Is it reasonable to assume that *partners will have equivalently complex mapping rules into their own system?

No wonder there are problems - I'm sure in tools, integrations, and simply in customer understanding.
AC isn't the first one to do branded fares... there are not enough letters in the alphabet to accommodate 1:1 ratio of mapping based on fare class alone. Yes, it's more complex and yes it's much better on both ends. I like booking Basic fares for dirt cheap and somewhat cheaper Flex fares for the full AQM.

G fare class domestic used to be allotted to Tango (now Standard) before Basic was created, IIRC.

So in the past I can see just simply passing the fare class letter (the first letter of the basis), and then Bob's your uncle. I'm guessing it's some archaic interface with old-school JSON or something (total guess, but also totally plausible).

Now, you can't just pass the fare class letter by itself (assuming that this was originally the case). And even if now it passes the fare class letter along with information regarding the category, how does the other side interpret it even if they were given the new rules from AC?

(just thinking out loud)
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Old Nov 6, 18, 12:43 pm
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Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
AC isn't the first one to do branded fares... there are not enough letters in the alphabet to accommodate 1:1 ratio of mapping based on fare class alone. Yes, it's more complex and yes it's much better on both ends. I like booking Basic fares for dirt cheap and somewhat cheaper Flex fares for the full AQM.

G fare class domestic used to be allotted to Tango (now Standard) before Basic was created, IIRC.

So in the past I can see just simply passing the fare class letter (the first letter of the basis), and then Bob's your uncle. I'm guessing it's some archaic interface with old-school JSON or something (total guess, but also totally plausible).
Most punch cards support 80 cols .... I would have thought that should be enough
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Old Nov 6, 18, 5:06 pm
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Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
@secretalcoholic

I did a mock Flex fare AC402 booking for December 5, 2018:

It is a 14-day advanced G fare class and the fare basis is indeed a Flex fare basis showing "G14ULAFL" with the "FL" ending/"suffix".

A true Tango fare basis would end in "TG" instead of "FL".

I'm not necessarily saying that your "G" fare class would have the same "FL" basis as I show above, but this is something you'll need to (re)confirm on your end.[/font]
@yyznomad thanks!! That clears it up. Looks like I have been booking it under FL indeed. Just reconfirmed it on my corporate travel tool.
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Old Nov 12, 18, 12:15 pm
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Originally Posted by Santander View Post
Not sure what happens with a Flex T fare... I booked one for the first time today, so I guess I'll find out... or maybe this is a good time to make use of 24 hour cancellation.
Just an update - my Flex T YYZ-YOW flight just got credited to UA as a Q fare - 100% PQM and PQS. One data point, but it appears that Flex T (and possibly Flex STLAK) fares should credit as 100% mileage fares on at least UA.
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Old Nov 12, 18, 5:26 pm
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Santander View Post
Just an update - my Flex T YYZ-YOW flight just got credited to UA as a Q fare - 100% PQM and PQS. One data point, but it appears that Flex T (and possibly Flex STLAK) fares should credit as 100% mileage fares on at least UA.
This sounds very much like AC wants Standard to credit as 25/50% everywhere, Flex as 100% everywhere, etc.

So Standard M posts as T, and Flex K posts as Q.

It currently results in a misleading earning rate on other programs, but it's a logical intent on AC's part if this is what's happening.
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Old Nov 12, 18, 7:13 pm
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
This sounds very much like AC wants Standard to credit as 25/50% everywhere, Flex as 100% everywhere, etc.

So Standard M posts as T, and Flex K posts as Q.

It currently results in a misleading earning rate on other programs, but it's a logical intent on AC's part if this is what's happening.
Yes, I think that is exactly what is happening.
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Old Nov 22, 18, 6:01 pm
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This doesn't really belong here but wasn't sure where else to put it and it doesn't deserve its own thread.

Bought a flex ticket YVR-YWG-YYZ-BWI-YYZ-YVR

Outbound is showing as Economy Flex (V) on AC site, but inbound shows Economy Standard (T). Seems odd because I was able to eUp without any co-pay.

Do I raise a complaint or wait to see how the miles post?
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