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Question: Z class business bookings and concierge service for same-day changes

Question: Z class business bookings and concierge service for same-day changes

Old Sep 24, 18, 7:59 am
  #1  
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Z class business bookings and concierge service for same-day changes

So I recently learned that concierge service is extended to paid business travel on the same day at the airport. I often fly between LHR and YYZ and have experienced this a few times, where I've shown up very early in the day on a Z or P fare and asked to do a same day change. Generally the check-in agent has directed me to the concierge and this has been no problem at all except on my last trip. I was told the fare rules didn't permit SDC's, but looking back at the other occasions, I don't think the fare rules permitted it either, or there was a $150+ fee, which was waived each time. My employer purchases paid business travel from CWT, and when I requested the CWT rules for my latest trip there's no mention of same day changes.

Have my few trips been an anomaly, or was the one occasion where my request denied the anomaly? What's the norm here? I read in a post on this forum that when dealing with the concierge fare rules tend to go out the window and they have a lot of latitude to do same day changes and waive any fees. Is that really the case?
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Old Sep 24, 18, 8:05 am
  #2  
 
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What would be the point of a fare rule, if it were true that by the very nature of purchasing that fare, you are entitled to a service that just tosses all rules out the window,?

No, the Concierge cannot just ignore fare rules. Sometimes, you will find a Concierge who knows how to work around things by applying a different rule that may be relevant.
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Old Sep 24, 18, 8:09 am
  #3  
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Looking at the CWT fare rules may not be enough for something like an at-the-airport SDC...

I agree with the above poster though that if the AC fare rules you were previously booked under did not allow free SDC and required a change fee (which is likely for restricted fares such as P and Z), then the concierge did you a favour...

(and it's nice to see that a non-status (at least, non-SE) international J-cabin paying customer actually does get concierge service at the airport. )
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Old Sep 24, 18, 8:22 am
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Yeah, I agree it would be odd if the fare rules could be ignored. Just paraphrasing a post I read here a couple of days ago (can't locate it now). So is there any way to see what the fare rules are that AC sees? Are they different from what CWT provides me?
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Old Sep 24, 18, 8:30 am
  #5  
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Originally Posted by pilot007 View Post
Yeah, I agree it would be odd if the fare rules could be ignored. Just paraphrasing a post I read here a couple of days ago (can't locate it now). So is there any way to see what the fare rules are that AC sees? Are they different from what CWT provides me?
Concierges usually have some leeway regarding the AC fare rules.

What I meant was that TA fare rules are their own rules. CWT might charge nothing for a change regardless of what AC's underlying rules are. In this case, at the airport for a SDC request, the concierges won't care what your TA's rules are for the ticket your employer bought through them (CWT). But they'll know AC's fare class/basis rules.

If you can figure out the AC locator (not the TA locator), you can view your reservation on Ac.com.
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Old Sep 24, 18, 8:34 am
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Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
If you can figure out the AC locator (not the TA locator), you can view your reservation on Ac.com.
Yeah, I have the AC locator, but I can't find a way to pull up any rules on same day changes on ac.com. Any way to do this? That's what aggravates me about this process, that CWT has no idea what SDC is, and I can't figure out if the underlying AC rules permit it or not...
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Old Sep 24, 18, 8:41 am
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If you bring up your itinerary on AC.com, with each flight, there should be a Class of Service title that is a hyperlink, ie: Economy-Standard, Premium Economy, or Business Class (Lowest) etc.

This will bring up the high level details, which you can then access the detailed rules.

Last edited by ChrisA330; Sep 24, 18 at 8:49 am
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Old Sep 24, 18, 8:46 am
  #8  
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Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
What I meant was that TA fare rules are their own rules.
Airlines create fares and rules.... not agencies.
I reviewed the fare rules and P/Z both require a fee for same day changes
D or higher is without fee

generally matches what is shown here
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...tinations.html
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Old Sep 24, 18, 8:55 am
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Originally Posted by ABG View Post
Airlines create fares and rules.... not agencies.
I reviewed the fare rules and P/Z both require a fee for same day changes
D or higher is without fee

generally matches what is shown here
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...tinations.html
Yes, absolutely.

My point was that things like change fees and other minutiae can be added by the TA on top of the airline's fare rules, etc.
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Old Sep 24, 18, 9:08 am
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Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
My point was that things like change fees and other minutiae can be added by the TA on top of the airline's fare rules, etc.
but Air Canada does not allow same day changes to be processed by agents..... so your point is lost on me
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Old Sep 24, 18, 9:25 am
  #11  
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Originally Posted by ABG View Post
but Air Canada does not allow same day changes to be processed by agents..... so your point is lost on me
Yes, that is what my point was to the OP - first of all, is it actually a true SDC or did they waive a change fee based on a restrictive fare? If SDC isn't allowed on the AC fare rules, then it means it's a change fee to confirm onto an earlier flight. A TA may or may not have their own change fees when changing to an earlier flight regardless of the airline's fare rules, so I just wanted to make sure the OP wasn't solely relying on the TA rules.

And that's what I mean about the rules, for the OP not to interpret 1:1 rules on the ticket/service purchased through CWT vs. AC's fare rules. Although, I do agree in general that fare can be aligned closely between TA and airline.

As an example of my own experiences, in the past, I've purchased tickets and services through TAs where I would pay a lump sum service fee for a year which includes no additional change fees to pay any entity, if done X days in advance, regardless of the airlinre's base fare rules. That's one example. I just wanted to make sure the OP wasn't relying on strictly the TA side of things when at the airport, and not assuming that it was necessarily a true SDC.

If the gist of what I'm saying isn't working, I'll just clarify when we meet in person at a DO. I know there are some here like yourself (?) who are TAs, so I'm just speaking from what I've experienced regarding what penalties or fees I may or may not be charged by my TA vs. If I had bought directly from AC.

Last edited by yyznomad; Sep 24, 18 at 9:32 am
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Old Sep 24, 18, 9:42 am
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So I can't view the fare rules when I login to the booking on ac.com, all I can see is that it says "Business Class (lowest)" and "Business (Z)" beside each leg, but no way to view any restrictions on changes. FWIW, the TA rules permit changes without penalty. It would be great if I could know what rules the AC check-in agent / concierge is going by when I show up, because then I'd know if it's worth arriving early to do an SDC, or if there's no point because the rules from AC's perspective don't permit it. I don't mind paying a SDC fee, but last time I was flat out told it was not possible.
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Old Sep 24, 18, 9:44 am
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Also, what's weird is that a few times when I've made the request at LHR, the check-in agents have told me that would depend on fare bucket inventory for my class of fare. Does a SDC really depend on their being space in the same bucket as my ticket (Z)? I thought that if there's seat's available, even if they're only selling in the J bucket, I could get onboard.
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Old Sep 24, 18, 9:46 am
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Originally Posted by pilot007 View Post
So I can't view the fare rules when I login to the booking on ac.com, all I can see is that it says "Business Class (lowest)" and "Business (Z)" beside each leg, but no way to view any restrictions on changes. FWIW, the TA rules permit changes without penalty. It would be great if I could know what rules the AC check-in agent / concierge is going by when I show up, because then I'd know if it's worth arriving early to do an SDC, or if there's no point because the rules from AC's perspective don't permit it. I don't mind paying a SDC fee, but last time I was flat out told it was not possible.
I can't comment exactly on what you're seeing on the website, however, as per ABG, SDC wouldn't be something your TA would have some sort of thing written as a rule as this is only to be done at the airport.

The first thing I would do is to figure out if your fare allows for true free SDC, which according to ABG above, does not.

So this is what I meant by a change fee to change your flight on the same day (including on the day of), which is not necessarily the same as a true SDC, despite this self-describing term. Your TA might not have a change fee, but AC might.
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Old Sep 24, 18, 9:47 am
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Originally Posted by pilot007 View Post
Also, what's weird is that a few times when I've made the request at LHR, the check-in agents have told me that would depend on fare bucket inventory for my class of fare. Does a SDC really depend on their being space in the same bucket as my ticket (Z)? I thought that if there's seat's available, even if they're only selling in the J bucket, I could get onboard.
Oh, I just wanted to clarify as well...

In the past here in this forum, it has been stressed several times that the definition of SDC is to be done at the airport only, however, the fare rules may or may not allow a "true" free SDC, meaning a fee would be needed to be paid in order to confirm, at the airport, to an earlier flight. Although this, with all intents and purposes is technically the same day, others have stated that this is not a true SDC but rather a change fee, which is typically more expensive if done before getting to the airport.

So I've always looked at the definition of SDC as being free as it usually comes with an unrestrictive fare class, and that restricted fare classes do allow for "changes on the same day" at the airport, but for a change fee (which has been explained here as not a true SDC per se despite the self-describing term).

And with your scenario needing Z, this is my understanding (that might require clarification from others): this tells me it's a change fee and not a true SDC (which as I explained above is a free thing). My understanding is that a SDC puts you into any bucket in the same cabin with positive space and you don't need the exact fare class. If this were the case, true SDCing would be really difficult, IMHO. I could be wrong but this has been my understanding.

Last edited by yyznomad; Sep 24, 18 at 9:53 am
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