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Denied boarding due to boarding pass link not working ?

Denied boarding due to boarding pass link not working ?

Old Sep 2, 18, 10:44 pm
  #76  
 
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If pax had a seqence number 035 they were checked in. Don't know why any airline needs to re-open a flight just to do a boarding pass reprint, you definitely don't with Altea. What checkin system to AC use?

With regard to the "flight closed" bit, I wonder if by the time the pax got from TSA back to the checkin counter (maybe 30 mins prior by now) to ask for a reprint if all the other pax were boarded & AC offloaded him as a gate noshow?
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Old Sep 2, 18, 11:02 pm
  #77  
 
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Originally Posted by justhere View Post
So let's think about that for a moment. Thousands upon thousands of travelers buy a ticket, go through security, and get on their flight every day. No doubt there are a lot of people who cancel a ticket after going through security because plans change, etc. And I'm sure some buy a refundable ticket just to clear security for whatever reason (meet someone at the gate, access club, etc). Probably not too many though.

Your claim then is that someone with malicious intent is more likely to put themselves in the minority group of travelers? Rather than blending in with the majority?

Buying a refundable ticket once in a blue moon, if that frequently, and cancelling it after going through security is hardly going to get anyone any unwanted attention. Whether the ticket is refundable or not, that same person is going through security for the same reason. The refundability of the ticket doesn't make someone more of a threat. It probably makes them less of a threat because if the person is concerned about the refund, they had to have given valid personal information.

So the OP could have easily bought a refundable ticket to clear security, made their flight, and cancelled the refundable ticket. The airline might care but security isn't going to.
TLDR - what you think is normal may be entirely different than what the TSA and airlines think is normal

Let's look at this situation from the standpoint of the TSA. We've got a pax who bought an airline ticket, went through security then cancelled and flat out left the secure area on their own accord. Now, suppose they're a kettle and don't have a MilagePlus travel record that spans several pages and takes a couple of minutes to print. Let us not forget what happened to DrunkCargo after Air Canada claimed that he cancelled several refundable tickets after visiting a MLL - and he's a SE 100K who travels so often that one would argue that type of behaviour is to be expected! If you're a security analyst with the TSA you could analyze this travel behaviour and say, "hmm, I wonder if he's a bad guy looking for vulnerabilities at the airport." Other behaviour which I suspect would tip them off would include buying the ticket last minute, paying for the ticket with cash, or having someone else (non-family member nor employer) buy the ticket for them. I suspect the pax behaviour would ticket several of these boxes.

Sure you could argue that countless travellers get their flights cancelled every day due to IRROPS, mis-connects, etc. However, I suspect in those instances the airline would code those cancellations in such a way where it would be considered normal.

Keep in mind if the reports we hear are all true, all it takes is a single trip to Turkey to get a black scar on your travel record with them!

Safe Travels,

James
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Old Sep 2, 18, 11:22 pm
  #78  
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Originally Posted by justhere View Post
And I'm sure some buy a refundable ticket just to clear security for whatever reason (meet someone at the gate, access club, etc). Probably not too many though.
As this particular traveler departed SJC, then the applicable US legislation is:

Title 49 → Subtitle B → Chapter XII → Subchapter C → Part 1540

1540.103 Fraud and intentional falsification of records.
No person may make, or cause to be made, any of the following:
(a) Any fraudulent or intentionally false statement in any application for any security program, access medium, or identification medium, or any amendment thereto, under this subchapter.


Should this traveler had followed your advice to gain access to the AC flight because of the problem with BP, and thus presented an official document authorized by TSA i.e. Boarding Pass (electronic or otherwise) which is issued by a particular airline under this Chapter for the purpose of the traveler to board a different flight, but instead fully intended to take the AC flight - without question this is a fraudulent statement to the TSA officer checking the travelers bona fides under this section.

Do what you wish, but advice posted on this Forum that could put a fellow traveler in jail, well, this needs to be challenged.

Last edited by skybluesea; Sep 2, 18 at 11:23 pm Reason: sp
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Old Sep 2, 18, 11:44 pm
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by justhere View Post
So the OP could have easily bought a refundable ticket to clear security, made their flight, and cancelled the refundable ticket. The airline might care but security isn't going to.
Seems a little bit over the top. Would be easier to just get a gate pass. Only ever had to do that once in 2009 at SEA when I left a passport on a plane SFO/SEA & the passport continued on the DFW on the floor of the a/c. AS were apparently sending p/p back to SEA the next day however when I went back to SeaTac to meet the DFW/SEA flight nobody knew anything about it. Long story short, got passport back 6 days later when AS send it via FedEx to hotel in NYC.
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Old Sep 3, 18, 12:12 am
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Originally Posted by ChrisA330 View Post
I don't think anyone is saying this is the customer's problem (I'm certainly not), but I'm not so sure it's an IT fail either.

I wouldn't be surprised if AC requires you to have downloaded the BP prior to the check in cutoff. That could explain why the link didn't work. If that is the case, the instructions need to be way more clear.

I hope you report back here once your friend has received an official response from AC.
Originally Posted by vernonc View Post
This may be the most logical explanation. I have not seen anything from AC saying you have to download the BP before any set time. Only you have to be at the gate 30 mins before dep for US-Canada flights and he was most certainly there well before that. As per canadiancow, Y went out full but there was space in J. I hope this was not a convenient way to avoid IDB. All sorts of weird stuff happen at outstations. I will most certainly report back. My friend did call AC and was told to go fill out the on-line form so may have to wait a few months for a resolution. FYI he is E50K.
I believe this is the case - I had it happen numerous times to me, prior to setting my general faith in the app, plus paper backup.

In particular, I believe it tended to happen at smaller outposts where I could easily arrive 20min ahead, clear security, and be at the gate near the start of boarding... and where I tracked an unofficially delayed incoming plane ... and therefore left to the airport later.

Once, I had to go back to an agent for a reprint. For quite some time after, I screenshotted every BP - and I still often do with the app. I lost count of how many times it saved me (either IT or cell coverage), but has been far less necessary with the app. I actually found the web link BP so hit and miss that I used my screenshot as my primary for a while.

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Old Sep 3, 18, 8:10 am
  #81  
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Originally Posted by justhere View Post
Lots of discussion about paper BP's, electronic BP's, IDB, etc, but nothing about the actual conversation the traveler had at the ticket counter. We really don't know if he said "I need a BP" and was told flight closed and then he walked away. Or if he tried to explain the situation multiple different ways and still couldn't get a BP. The gate can always print a BP and often do at the last minute for seat changes, etc. So the check in desk, if they truly couldn't print one, could have just issued a gate pass. Or the traveler could have bought a fully refundable ticket from any airline there to get through security and then cancel that ticket and get his BP at the gate.
He explained the situation multiple different ways and showed them the boarding pass email.
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Old Sep 3, 18, 8:11 am
  #82  
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Originally Posted by ffsim View Post
Way to go misunderstanding my post

I wasn't slicing and dicing the meanings of IDB. I was also thanking people for sharing the "correct reference".
You had it right the first time. Everybody who wasn't looking for something to criticize knew what you meant.

And you do bring up an important point. The passenger was denied boarding. It was involuntary. But it was NOT IDB as defined for the purposes of compensation. We need that as a header in every post ever that mentions the term "IDB."

Mike
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Old Sep 3, 18, 8:34 am
  #83  
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Originally Posted by mikeef View Post
The passenger was denied boarding.
We still have not heard from the traveler directly - all we have, respectfully, are the 2nd hand comments from OP - who admits NOT being present.

How about traveler engages AC, gets reply which will certainly come in due course, and shares for all to see, if they so wish how AC views this matter.

Of course, speculating is far more fun than getting the views first hand of the parties in this transaction - but that is what much of this Forum contains so hopefully not spoiling your fun

Last edited by skybluesea; Sep 3, 18 at 8:35 am Reason: sp
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Old Sep 3, 18, 9:34 am
  #84  
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Originally Posted by skybluesea View Post
As this particular traveler departed SJC, then the applicable US legislation is:

Title 49 → Subtitle B → Chapter XII → Subchapter C → Part 1540

1540.103 Fraud and intentional falsification of records.
No person may make, or cause to be made, any of the following:
(a) Any fraudulent or intentionally false statement in any application for any security program, access medium, or identification medium, or any amendment thereto, under this subchapter.


Should this traveler had followed your advice to gain access to the AC flight because of the problem with BP, and thus presented an official document authorized by TSA i.e. Boarding Pass (electronic or otherwise) which is issued by a particular airline under this Chapter for the purpose of the traveler to board a different flight, but instead fully intended to take the AC flight - without question this is a fraudulent statement to the TSA officer checking the travelers bona fides under this section.

Do what you wish, but advice posted on this Forum that could put a fellow traveler in jail, well, this needs to be challenged.
Honestly, this is nonsense. Countless people have been doing the buy-refundable thing for years and, many of them on FT, and not one single person has ever been challenged or arrested or suffered any issues whatsoever aside from not paying attention and accidentally buying the wrong fare.

I do this multiple times a year - every year - to be airside and wait in the lounge for my parents to arrive, or to escort them to the gate and dine in the lounge after they board. No one has ever batted an eye and there is absolutely no way the government has a clue about your real intentions, nor can they prove anything to the contrary.

Seriously,

More to the point of this thread, it would have taken more time to buy a refundable ticket on another airline, check-in, get a boarding pass, clear security, get to the AC gate and remember to cancel the refundable ticket which usually requires a call because the passenger is already checked-in - for example, doing this on Delta could require 30-45 minutes on hold to reach an agent to process the refund and avoid a no-show, and the AC flight is already in the air by then.

Is there no kiosk for AIr Canada at SJC? This is really the fastest and easiest option to fix this kind of problem.
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Old Sep 3, 18, 9:57 am
  #85  
 
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I had this exact same problem on a flight yesterday from the US, also to YVR. I rarely fly AC so this whole email link thing is very strange to me. On the way down, no problem. On the way home yesterday, I, like the OP’s friend, could also not check in via the app and get an electronic BP. I tried to open the emailed link at my hotel so I could print my BP - nada. Nor would it give me an electronic BP. I tried going back via the app - nope. I even went to a computer and tried to pull it up on the AC website - error message to see an agent at the airport.

I went to the aiport earlier than my usual last-minute (no bags, PreCheck) and went to a kiosk and it printed no problem, after swiping my passport. First time this has ever happened to me as I can usually access the BP and do the passport check at the gate.

Out of curiosity after reading this thread, I asked at the desk what would have happened if I had come in at T-45 (as the OP’s friend did) and she said she would not have been able to help me as check in closes strictly at T-60 for international flights. When I pointed out that I had already checked in, just couldn’t access my BP, she said if the link did not allow me to access my BP, then the check in process was not complete, hence the need to see an agent. She pointed me to this page:
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...ing-times.html and when you click on the little i next to “Check-in / baggage drop-off ends” you get (bolding mine):
“You must have checked in, obtained your boarding pass and deposited all checked baggage at the baggage drop-off counter before the end of the check-in period for your flight.” which is:
To/From the U.S. 60 minutes

So obtaining the BP is part of the check in procedure which must be completed by T-60 for flights to Canada. The OP’s friend hadn’t obtained his boarding pass - he had only received the link and, had he clicked it, he probably would have gotten the same error message I did. He left it too late to sort out at the airport, which really just entailed a trip to a kiosk prior to T-60.

Last edited by Finkface; Sep 3, 18 at 10:04 am Reason: Spelling
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Old Sep 3, 18, 10:15 am
  #86  
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For the posters who are genuinely concerned about this issue, just use the kiosk as I understand it will still reprint boarding passes until someone manually sets a cut-off time for a specific flight, and if you've reached that point, then there is no time to buy a refundable ticket on another airline, the best option is just to escalate at the airport to the station manager, who should be there during weekday business hours.

Last edited by tcook052; Sep 3, 18 at 10:25 am Reason: delete quote
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Old Sep 3, 18, 10:19 am
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
For the posters who are genuinely concerned about this issue, just use the kiosk as I understand it will still reprint boarding passes until someone manually sets a cut-off time for a specific flight, and if you've reached that point, then there is no time to buy a refundable ticket on another airline, the best option is just to escalate at the airport to the station manager, who should be there during weekday business hours.
As my post two above this seems to have gotten lost in the OT talk about laws etc, the cutoff for obtaining a boarding pass for flights to and from the US is 60 minutes. It is a hard cutoff, according to the agent I spoke to yesterday. OP’s friend missed it by showing up at T-45.

Last edited by tcook052; Sep 3, 18 at 10:26 am Reason: edit quote
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Old Sep 3, 18, 10:23 am
  #88  
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This thread has wander fairly far afield but has been reopened so let's try and stick as closely as possible to the thread topic.

tcook052
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Last edited by tcook052; Sep 4, 18 at 4:50 pm
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Old Sep 4, 18, 7:37 pm
  #89  
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Back on topic and answering some of the questions upstream now that I have the answers from my colleague and the thread is reopened.

No kiosks were live. All shut down when they closed the flight. So no reprinting BP at the kiosks.
Regarding taking SFO flights, one flight was available but already full.
Agent said she could not do anything even when shown the BP link. When she came back and my colleague said she could have called the gate to get a BP reprinted , she realized that could have worked but it was now too late apparently.

No answer from AC after filling out the web form but I will keep you posted soon as I know.
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Old Sep 4, 18, 7:43 pm
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Originally Posted by Finkface View Post
As my post two above this seems to have gotten lost in the OT talk about laws etc, the cutoff for obtaining a boarding pass for flights to and from the US is 60 minutes. It is a hard cutoff, according to the agent I spoke to yesterday. OPs friend missed it by showing up at T-45.
I think I must restate the fact that he had already checked in at 9.20am with sequence 35 and AC sent him his boarding pass at 9.20am. The fact that he had tried to open it at the airport does not mean he did not have a BP, it just means the link did not work. If the link is not supposed to work 60 mins before departure then AC should state that. Please feel free to point out where it states that BP links will not work unless opened at least 60 mins before departure.
So if my friend was airside coming in from another flight and decided to open the link at the gate at 30 mins before departure it would not have worked and he would have not been allowed to board ?
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