Aug 21, 2018, 8:23 am
Last edit by: yyznomad
For those of you interested only in the revised $450-million deal and related discussion, it starts on post 418:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1926409-update-aimia-accepts-air-canada-td-cibc-visa-revised-450-million-aeroplan-bid-28.html#post30109427
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1926409-update-aimia-accepts-air-canada-td-cibc-visa-revised-450-million-aeroplan-bid-28.html#post30109427
Update: Aimia accepts Air Canada, TD, CIBC & Visa revised $450-million Aeroplan bid
Aug 21, 2018, 10:56 am
#481
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 38
Everyone is predicting doom and gloom. Every announcement is that everything will be worse. AC & CCConglomorate are not spending $450mil to destroy the program. They can do that for free by not doing anything.
Imagine the possibilities!
8% becomes dynamic. Consider YYZ-MCO goes to R999. YHZ-YYZ becomes R1, 100% of the time. YHZ-YYZ-MCO is R3, 99% of the time. YHZ-YYZ-MCO on some given date is R7, so a family can fly, but even good flights. But any booking reduces availability for all the flights for that day.
Instant spend points for BoB items. Buy eUp credits with Aeropesos. Lounge access.
Able to use the web to make changes. For free. Or a nominal fee that doesn't have to pay for 30 minutes of a call center agents time.
Imagine the possibilities!
8% becomes dynamic. Consider YYZ-MCO goes to R999. YHZ-YYZ becomes R1, 100% of the time. YHZ-YYZ-MCO is R3, 99% of the time. YHZ-YYZ-MCO on some given date is R7, so a family can fly, but even good flights. But any booking reduces availability for all the flights for that day.
Instant spend points for BoB items. Buy eUp credits with Aeropesos. Lounge access.
Able to use the web to make changes. For free. Or a nominal fee that doesn't have to pay for 30 minutes of a call center agents time.
Aug 21, 2018, 11:08 am
#483
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
.....My understanding (which might be incorrect) on Visa is that they're a brand name. They don't actually issue any cards or do anything other than maintain the brand and possibly run the global card processing network bearing its name. Contrast that with AE which issues credit cards, runs a payment processing network and is a bank to boot. From what I can ascertain there were two card brands issuing Aeroplan cards, Visa and AE (the latter offering their Aeroplan Plus cards). Now that Visa/TD/CIBC own the Aeroplan program it's unlikely that AE will stay onboard with Aeroplan past 2020. I honestly wouldn't mind that if it meant I could have another * partner (preferably UA) at the 1:1 ratio. Only time will tell here!
Safe Travels,
James
Safe Travels,
James
1. wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Inc.
2. VISA Canada https://www.visa.ca/en_CA and a page re their Loyalty Program business https://www.visa.ca/en_CA/partner-wi...-programs.html
There are 3 partner-issued card banks:
IMO, Aeroplan does not issue cards, they partner with banks to issue partner or affinity cards with the Aeroplan brand. That's why AX, CIBC, TD all issue cards. They all make money from these affinity partnerships, some more than others and for sure CIBC has a better infrastructure, partly due to having been the preferred partner from the beginning until TD bid and won that right..
I know others here can explain it better.
P.S. The CIBC and TD threads on this forum had some interesting reading as well.
Aug 21, 2018, 11:12 am
#484
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BOS, YVR, ZRH
Programs: *G
Posts: 17,397
I was planning to liquidate by 2020... Now it'll be interesting to see if this speeds up the timeline since AP could theoretically devalue anytime. I expect a lot of J redemptions on the chopping block, as well as stopover rules...
Aug 21, 2018, 11:14 am
#485
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Programs: AC 75K
Posts: 6,360
Visa is most likely participating as they want the interchange fees to continue streaming in from the CIBC/TD cards. It's not uncommon for the Credit Card Networks to provide financial incentives to the issuers for the development of new products/services.
Aug 21, 2018, 11:17 am
#486
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delta, BC
Posts: 1,646
Given what happened to my sister this past weekend, they'll always be known as the skunk to me - cancelling a PAX flight at 11:30 PM when their reservation/support line is closed then offering to rebook them 2 days later is not an acceptable option. The cherry on the cake is that while it's simple to cancel online and receive credit that can be used for a future Porter flight, you have to call them up and be on hold for hours to get a proper refund. Getting sprayed by the skunk is not something I'd wish on even my worst enemy!
My understanding (which might be incorrect) on Visa is that they're a brand name. They don't actually issue any cards or do anything other than maintain the brand and possibly run the global card processing network bearing its name. Contrast that with AE which issues credit cards, runs a payment processing network and is a bank to boot. From what I can ascertain there were two card brands issuing Aeroplan cards, Visa and AE (the latter offering their Aeroplan Plus cards). Now that Visa/TD/CIBC own the Aeroplan program it's unlikely that AE will stay onboard with Aeroplan past 2020. I honestly wouldn't mind that if it meant I could have another * partner (preferably UA) at the 1:1 ratio. Only time will tell here!
Safe Travels,
James
My understanding (which might be incorrect) on Visa is that they're a brand name. They don't actually issue any cards or do anything other than maintain the brand and possibly run the global card processing network bearing its name. Contrast that with AE which issues credit cards, runs a payment processing network and is a bank to boot. From what I can ascertain there were two card brands issuing Aeroplan cards, Visa and AE (the latter offering their Aeroplan Plus cards). Now that Visa/TD/CIBC own the Aeroplan program it's unlikely that AE will stay onboard with Aeroplan past 2020. I honestly wouldn't mind that if it meant I could have another * partner (preferably UA) at the 1:1 ratio. Only time will tell here!
Safe Travels,
James
I'd also use AMEX not "AE" for American Express; as "AE" is also used as a short form for Aeroplan. Yes, VISA and AMEX are the card networks behind the TD and CIBC VISA cards and of course the AMEX cards that are affiliated with Aeroplan.
Aug 21, 2018, 11:20 am
#487
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
VISA is more than a "brand name"........They license the name to financial institutions that actually issue the branded cards and process the payments.
I'd also use AMEX not "AE" for American Express; as "AE" is also used as a short form for Aeroplan. Yes, VISA and AMEX are the card networks behind the TD and CIBC VISA cards and of course the AMEX cards that are affiliated with Aeroplan.
I'd also use AMEX not "AE" for American Express; as "AE" is also used as a short form for Aeroplan. Yes, VISA and AMEX are the card networks behind the TD and CIBC VISA cards and of course the AMEX cards that are affiliated with Aeroplan.
Aug 21, 2018, 11:34 am
#488
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: YXE
Posts: 3,050
Sounds like its all going to be business as usual. Little to no changes from a customer point of view. Aeroplan will continue for decades longer. Air Canada is now back in control, and can even tweak the Aeroplan program to its immediate business needs, which may very well be consumer-positive in terms of the sorts of promotions that are accessible. Altitude will probably remain as the top-tier recognition program, but will amount to nothing more than such. A subset of the overall Aeroplan program. No major IT investments will be needed in any 'new' program.
I personally suspect the Market Fares will disappear, as redemptions of such actually cost AC sales, and are not otherwise un-saleable seats. Availability guarantees that were provided to Aimia/AP may very well be dropped -- meaning it might be a bit harder to use AP points for obscure QK destinations. Reciprocity with other Star Alliance redemption programs, through the well established schemas of barter and in-kind swaps of redemption space, will continue.
$450M is an awesome deal to buy back something that AC was able to sell off, in a time of need, for an amount in excess of $2B.
I personally suspect the Market Fares will disappear, as redemptions of such actually cost AC sales, and are not otherwise un-saleable seats. Availability guarantees that were provided to Aimia/AP may very well be dropped -- meaning it might be a bit harder to use AP points for obscure QK destinations. Reciprocity with other Star Alliance redemption programs, through the well established schemas of barter and in-kind swaps of redemption space, will continue.
$450M is an awesome deal to buy back something that AC was able to sell off, in a time of need, for an amount in excess of $2B.
Aug 21, 2018, 11:36 am
#489
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE100K, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 2,132
Aug 21, 2018, 11:41 am
#490
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto, Ont., Canada
Programs: Aeroplan; Marriott Platinum; IHG Platinum; Best Western Diamond
Posts: 2,164
AC made a lot of money to spin off ae. AC then get to announce cutting ties with ae, then buy it back cheap.
Must be enticing for AC to contemplate doing the same in a few years.
Must be enticing for AC to contemplate doing the same in a few years.
Aug 21, 2018, 11:47 am
#491
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: YXE
Posts: 3,050
What's great for those of us with Altitude status?
Aug 21, 2018, 11:55 am
#493
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: I'm From Here
Programs: AC*SE & MM/*Wood Gold/HHonors Diamond/Marriott Silver/AirMiles Gold
Posts: 4,567
Perhaps we can get lucky and get some short term enhancements.
Giving AC reservations the ability to book/change AE rewards. Having access to a proper 24/7 call centre would be great as well.
There 'could' be some interesting short term perks which would be nice to see
I remember years ago (2001 or 2002) my TA actually booked a reward seat for me. I had to call Air Canada to 'pay' for my seat with points but she did all the heavy lifting (such as it is)
Would be nice to see somewhat of a return to that.
Past that, let the chips fall where they may. It isn't like we have any control at the moment
Giving AC reservations the ability to book/change AE rewards. Having access to a proper 24/7 call centre would be great as well.
There 'could' be some interesting short term perks which would be nice to see
I remember years ago (2001 or 2002) my TA actually booked a reward seat for me. I had to call Air Canada to 'pay' for my seat with points but she did all the heavy lifting (such as it is)
Would be nice to see somewhat of a return to that.
Past that, let the chips fall where they may. It isn't like we have any control at the moment
Aug 21, 2018, 12:16 pm
#494
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,316
Perhaps we can get lucky and get some short term enhancements.
Giving AC reservations the ability to book/change AE rewards. Having access to a proper 24/7 call centre would be great as well.
There 'could' be some interesting short term perks which would be nice to see
Giving AC reservations the ability to book/change AE rewards. Having access to a proper 24/7 call centre would be great as well.
There 'could' be some interesting short term perks which would be nice to see
At the very least, I'd expect the call centres to merge, and therefore become a 24/7 operation. This would clearly benefit everyone.
I'm under no impression that the new program will be best-in-class, just that it will solve a lot of the complaints many people have expressed on FT.
I don't know if any of these changes can or will be implemented before the launch of the new program, but I suspect it's possible when the deal is completed.