Last edit by: yyznomad
For those of you interested only in the revised $450-million deal and related discussion, it starts on post 418:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1926409-update-aimia-accepts-air-canada-td-cibc-visa-revised-450-million-aeroplan-bid-28.html#post30109427
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1926409-update-aimia-accepts-air-canada-td-cibc-visa-revised-450-million-aeroplan-bid-28.html#post30109427
Update: Aimia accepts Air Canada, TD, CIBC & Visa revised $450-million Aeroplan bid
#211
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: ,BW Rewards, Skymiles, Aeroplan, SPG, IHG, Marriott, Club Carlson, Alaska Airlines
Posts: 254
From The Globe and Mail Aug 1 8:48 pm EDT.Aeroplan parent in talks with Oneworld airline alliance amid Air Canada’s hostile takeover bid
Bobby Yip/Reuters
Aeroplan’s parent company, Aimia Inc., is in partnership talks with the Oneworld airline alliance as it fends off a hostile takeover bid from Air Canada and three financial partners.The talks, which Aimia confirmed on Wednesday, extend the company’s efforts to reposition Aeroplan once its contract with Air Canada expires in 2020.Under new leadership, the loyalty program has recently promised not to change the cost of booking flights for members once the Air Canada contract ends. It has also publicly stated members will be able to book seats on any airline come 2020.Behind the scenes, Aimia has also been negotiating a new partnership with the Oneworld alliance, whose member airlines include British Airways, American Airlines and Cathay Pacific. Oneworld is a direct competitor to Star Alliance, of which Air Canada is a member.“I can confirm that we are in discussions with Oneworld as a potential preferred airline partner,” an Aimia spokesperson wrote in an e-mail to The Globe and Mail.
Last edited by tcook052; Aug 1, 2018 at 10:55 pm Reason: reposting whole new articles is against FT Rules
#212
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
From The Globe and Mail Aug 1 8:48 pm EDT.Aeroplan parent in talks with Oneworld airline alliance amid Air Canada’s hostile takeover bid
Bobby Yip/Reuters
Aeroplan’s parent company, Aimia Inc., is in partnership talks with the Oneworld airline alliance as it fends off a hostile takeover bid from Air Canada and three financial partners.The talks, which Aimia confirmed on Wednesday, extend the company’s efforts to reposition Aeroplan once its contract with Air Canada expires in 2020.Under new leadership, the loyalty program has recently promised not to change the cost of booking flights for members once the Air Canada contract ends. It has also publicly stated members will be able to book seats on any airline come 2020.Behind the scenes, Aimia has also been negotiating a new partnership with the Oneworld alliance, whose member airlines include British Airways, American Airlines and Cathay Pacific. Oneworld is a direct competitor to Star Alliance, of which Air Canada is a member.“I can confirm that we are in discussions with Oneworld as a potential preferred airline partner,” an Aimia spokesperson wrote in an e-mail to The Globe and Mail.Last edited by tcook052; Aug 1, 2018 at 10:55 pm Reason: edit quote
#213
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 3,392
Let's do some math. If OW makes 8% of their seats available as rewards to AE members, and they have about 20,000 seats per year departing Canada (and none domestically), then how many AE points will those 1,600 seats cost, or how long (expressed in millenia) will the average AE member need to wait to be able to get a reward seat. (Somebody can probably point out that I am off by more than an order of magnitude on the number of OW seats departing Canada... But so what? As a percentage of *A seats they are such a trivial amount as to make the whole discussion laughably stupid. If I was a AE shareholder I would ask for the board to be replaced on the general grounds that they are clearly too dumb to tie their own shoe laces or even zip up on the way out the door in the morning, never mind run a business with a valuation of $250m or whatever the rapidly declining number is.
#214
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
You mean OW actually flies to Canada?
Let's do some math. If OW makes 8% of their seats available as rewards to AE members, and they have about 20,000 seats per year departing Canada (and none domestically), then how many AE points will those 1,600 seats cost, or how long (expressed in millenia) will the average AE member need to wait to be able to get a reward seat. (Somebody can probably point out that I am off by more than an order of magnitude on the number of OW seats departing Canada... But so what? As a percentage of *A seats they are such a trivial amount as to make the whole discussion laughably stupid. If I was a AE shareholder I would ask for the board to be replaced on the general grounds that they are clearly too dumb to tie their own shoe laces or even zip up on the way out the door in the morning, never mind run a business with a valuation of $250m or whatever the rapidly declining number is.
Let's do some math. If OW makes 8% of their seats available as rewards to AE members, and they have about 20,000 seats per year departing Canada (and none domestically), then how many AE points will those 1,600 seats cost, or how long (expressed in millenia) will the average AE member need to wait to be able to get a reward seat. (Somebody can probably point out that I am off by more than an order of magnitude on the number of OW seats departing Canada... But so what? As a percentage of *A seats they are such a trivial amount as to make the whole discussion laughably stupid. If I was a AE shareholder I would ask for the board to be replaced on the general grounds that they are clearly too dumb to tie their own shoe laces or even zip up on the way out the door in the morning, never mind run a business with a valuation of $250m or whatever the rapidly declining number is.
Safe Travels,
James
#215
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 972
You mean OW actually flies to Canada?
Let's do some math. If OW makes 8% of their seats available as rewards to AE members, and they have about 20,000 seats per year departing Canada (and none domestically), then how many AE points will those 1,600 seats cost, or how long (expressed in millenia) will the average AE member need to wait to be able to get a reward seat. (Somebody can probably point out that I am off by more than an order of magnitude on the number of OW seats departing Canada... But so what? As a percentage of *A seats they are such a trivial amount as to make the whole discussion laughably stupid. If I was a AE shareholder I would ask for the board to be replaced on the general grounds that they are clearly too dumb to tie their own shoe laces or even zip up on the way out the door in the morning, never mind run a business with a valuation of $250m or whatever the rapidly declining number is.
Let's do some math. If OW makes 8% of their seats available as rewards to AE members, and they have about 20,000 seats per year departing Canada (and none domestically), then how many AE points will those 1,600 seats cost, or how long (expressed in millenia) will the average AE member need to wait to be able to get a reward seat. (Somebody can probably point out that I am off by more than an order of magnitude on the number of OW seats departing Canada... But so what? As a percentage of *A seats they are such a trivial amount as to make the whole discussion laughably stupid. If I was a AE shareholder I would ask for the board to be replaced on the general grounds that they are clearly too dumb to tie their own shoe laces or even zip up on the way out the door in the morning, never mind run a business with a valuation of $250m or whatever the rapidly declining number is.
That may be a stretch but it's not impossible. It would be better long term for consumers.
Then again, this OW story may just be a gimmick to get the AC consortium to up their price.
#216
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto, Ont., Canada
Programs: Aeroplan; Marriott Platinum; IHG Platinum; Best Western Diamond
Posts: 2,131
AE was left to fall mid last year. They were in survival mode. People worried and some said to burn the points asap, in case ae dies early.
But ae's quarterly results kept saying there was no run on redemption. Partly it was because many people couldn't get seats, but mostly because many people thought there's still lots of time. Anyway, redemptions didn't skyrocket.
AC still thought they crashed ae, and of course always considered buying ae back on the cheap.
Meanwhile ae contacted many airlines and alliances. They obviously got some assurances, then announced ae 2.0, especially confirming same redemption points for most flights, for nearly 20 airlines, and also hotels/cars/toasters. AC goes holy sht, ae is not dying but will be healthy, and ae database is very valuable and can even fall into competitors' hands. AC is also probably behind in building their own system. TD and CIBC is not necessarily as worried, as they are likely partners with AC in 2020 anyway, but would still find it beneficial to not lose ae customers, but more importantly to thwart ae partnering with other banks. So AC in panic mode, launched the hostile takeover. AC gave the Aug. 2 date, before ae's quarterly report which probably will be good, and rosy forecast.
Now there is confirmation ae is talking to Oneworld. Ae must also be talking to others. Ae suddently has a much stronger hand, and probably will ask for a much higher price from AC, or just show middle finger to AC and firm up partnership with AC's competitors.
But ae's quarterly results kept saying there was no run on redemption. Partly it was because many people couldn't get seats, but mostly because many people thought there's still lots of time. Anyway, redemptions didn't skyrocket.
AC still thought they crashed ae, and of course always considered buying ae back on the cheap.
Meanwhile ae contacted many airlines and alliances. They obviously got some assurances, then announced ae 2.0, especially confirming same redemption points for most flights, for nearly 20 airlines, and also hotels/cars/toasters. AC goes holy sht, ae is not dying but will be healthy, and ae database is very valuable and can even fall into competitors' hands. AC is also probably behind in building their own system. TD and CIBC is not necessarily as worried, as they are likely partners with AC in 2020 anyway, but would still find it beneficial to not lose ae customers, but more importantly to thwart ae partnering with other banks. So AC in panic mode, launched the hostile takeover. AC gave the Aug. 2 date, before ae's quarterly report which probably will be good, and rosy forecast.
Now there is confirmation ae is talking to Oneworld. Ae must also be talking to others. Ae suddently has a much stronger hand, and probably will ask for a much higher price from AC, or just show middle finger to AC and firm up partnership with AC's competitors.
#217
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton G,Nexus, Amex MR Plat,IHG Plat
Posts: 4,405
Oneworld ? the proverbial other shoe dropped and explains the haste and timeline of AC's offer for AE. RBC/Westjet/Oneworld explains AE stating that after AC you can redeem on 20 airlines. Oneworld has 13 partners and 30 affiliates.
My guess is that the 20 includes Oneworld, Westjet, Alaska and a few others.
Missing or at least not reported is if Amex and/or CapitalOne are involved somewhere other than RBC. Or maybe in lieu of RBC. Which may explain why Visa is in the other camp.
My guess is that the 20 includes Oneworld, Westjet, Alaska and a few others.
Missing or at least not reported is if Amex and/or CapitalOne are involved somewhere other than RBC. Or maybe in lieu of RBC. Which may explain why Visa is in the other camp.
#219
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton G,Nexus, Amex MR Plat,IHG Plat
Posts: 4,405
#220
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto, Ont., Canada
Programs: Aeroplan; Marriott Platinum; IHG Platinum; Best Western Diamond
Posts: 2,131
#221
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 3,392
Who are the main OW players in Canada? BA, CX and AA. Which bank do they have existing relationships with? RBC. Which other airline does RBC have a relationship with? WestJet. Add WestJet and RBC to the mix and you have a potentially very powerful player in the points game in Canada. The Aimia Board may not be as dumb as you think.
That may be a stretch but it's not impossible. It would be better long term for consumers.
Then again, this OW story may just be a gimmick to get the AC consortium to up their price.
That may be a stretch but it's not impossible. It would be better long term for consumers.
Then again, this OW story may just be a gimmick to get the AC consortium to up their price.
#222
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 3,392
#223
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 336
From The Globe and Mail Aug 1 8:48 pm EDT
Aeroplans parent company, Aimia Inc., is in partnership talks with the Oneworld airline alliance as it fends off a hostile takeover bid from Air Canada and three financial partners.The talks, which Aimia confirmed on Wednesday, extend the companys efforts to reposition Aeroplan once its contract with Air Canada expires in 2020.<snip>Behind the scenes, Aimia has also been negotiating a new partnership with the Oneworld alliance, whose member airlines include British Airways, American Airlines and Cathay Pacific. Oneworld is a direct competitor to Star Alliance, of which Air Canada is a member.I can confirm that we are in discussions with Oneworld as a potential preferred airline partner, an Aimia spokesperson wrote in an e-mail to The Globe and Mail.The negotiations are continuing and may not result in a partnership...
Aeroplans parent company, Aimia Inc., is in partnership talks with the Oneworld airline alliance as it fends off a hostile takeover bid from Air Canada and three financial partners.The talks, which Aimia confirmed on Wednesday, extend the companys efforts to reposition Aeroplan once its contract with Air Canada expires in 2020.<snip>Behind the scenes, Aimia has also been negotiating a new partnership with the Oneworld alliance, whose member airlines include British Airways, American Airlines and Cathay Pacific. Oneworld is a direct competitor to Star Alliance, of which Air Canada is a member.I can confirm that we are in discussions with Oneworld as a potential preferred airline partner, an Aimia spokesperson wrote in an e-mail to The Globe and Mail.The negotiations are continuing and may not result in a partnership...
Except, wait. This does nothing but shed a little light on what we knew they were doing anyway: discussing partnerships.
Does the Potential Preferred Airline Partner (PPAP) status level come with bonus points and a drink coupon code? If I make it to the Potential Platinum Preferred Airline Partner (PPPAP) level, can I get some true IKK love and actually find availability at the rates you claim?
They're buying time, sure. But little else. Could the whole OneWorld thing be workable? Sure, and the gamble may pay off handsomely. Or it may go bust. However at this point every day that AE drags talks with AC on, the more prepared AC is to wholly go it on their own, the less likely AE will get a fair value, or simply be left to wither in the cold.
It's another way of saying, "now give us your real offer Air Canada + financial friends." To be honest, I already consider my >>$2,300 in points pretty much stranded, and value the AeroPesoPlan brand accordingly. Therefore, I can't see AC upping the ante much.
It is however, turning out to be somewhat more interesting than I would have guessed.
#224
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Who are the main OW players in Canada? BA, CX and AA. Which bank do they have existing relationships with? RBC. Which other airline does RBC have a relationship with? WestJet. Add WestJet and RBC to the mix and you have a potentially very powerful player in the points game in Canada. The Aimia Board may not be as dumb as you think.
That being said, the executives at Aeroplan are clearly stuck between a rock and a hard place: they have this very valuable business they have been milking for some time through lucrative offers with CC companies and partners but are locked in to Star Alliance thanks to their agreement with AC and *.
Safe Travels,
James
Safe Travels,
James
#225
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Air Canada Super Elite 2+ Million Miles
Posts: 2,478
And should this all go pear-shaped for AP, then AC can legitimately say to wringing hand Feds and general public we tried, so sorry, boo-hoo
btw... AC will also say dont forget to join our new program, we have CC special on for early program joiners...come on board to new altitudes
btw... AC will also say dont forget to join our new program, we have CC special on for early program joiners...come on board to new altitudes