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Update: Aimia accepts Air Canada, TD, CIBC & Visa revised $450-million Aeroplan bid

Old Aug 21, 2018, 8:23 am
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Last edit by: yyznomad
For those of you interested only in the revised $450-million deal and related discussion, it starts on post 418:

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1926409-update-aimia-accepts-air-canada-td-cibc-visa-revised-450-million-aeroplan-bid-28.html#post30109427
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Update: Aimia accepts Air Canada, TD, CIBC & Visa revised $450-million Aeroplan bid

Old Aug 1, 2018, 6:50 pm
  #211  
 
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From The Globe and Mail Aug 1 8:48 pm EDT.Aeroplan parent in talks with Oneworld airline alliance amid Air Canada’s hostile takeover bid

Bobby Yip/Reuters

Aeroplan’s parent company, Aimia Inc., is in partnership talks with the Oneworld airline alliance as it fends off a hostile takeover bid from Air Canada and three financial partners.The talks, which Aimia confirmed on Wednesday, extend the company’s efforts to reposition Aeroplan once its contract with Air Canada expires in 2020.Under new leadership, the loyalty program has recently promised not to change the cost of booking flights for members once the Air Canada contract ends. It has also publicly stated members will be able to book seats on any airline come 2020.Behind the scenes, Aimia has also been negotiating a new partnership with the Oneworld alliance, whose member airlines include British Airways, American Airlines and Cathay Pacific. Oneworld is a direct competitor to Star Alliance, of which Air Canada is a member.“I can confirm that we are in discussions with Oneworld as a potential preferred airline partner,” an Aimia spokesperson wrote in an e-mail to The Globe and Mail.

Last edited by tcook052; Aug 1, 2018 at 10:55 pm Reason: reposting whole new articles is against FT Rules
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Old Aug 1, 2018, 7:04 pm
  #212  
 
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Originally Posted by mgn2000
From The Globe and Mail Aug 1 8:48 pm EDT.Aeroplan parent in talks with Oneworld airline alliance amid Air Canada’s hostile takeover bid

Bobby Yip/Reuters

Aeroplan’s parent company, Aimia Inc., is in partnership talks with the Oneworld airline alliance as it fends off a hostile takeover bid from Air Canada and three financial partners.The talks, which Aimia confirmed on Wednesday, extend the company’s efforts to reposition Aeroplan once its contract with Air Canada expires in 2020.Under new leadership, the loyalty program has recently promised not to change the cost of booking flights for members once the Air Canada contract ends. It has also publicly stated members will be able to book seats on any airline come 2020.Behind the scenes, Aimia has also been negotiating a new partnership with the Oneworld alliance, whose member airlines include British Airways, American Airlines and Cathay Pacific. Oneworld is a direct competitor to Star Alliance, of which Air Canada is a member.“I can confirm that we are in discussions with Oneworld as a potential preferred airline partner,” an Aimia spokesperson wrote in an e-mail to The Globe and Mail.
Would be interesting to board a domestic flight in Canada on AA/BA using my Aeroplan points...haven't been able to do that with OneWorld since Canadian left the market in the early 00s

Last edited by tcook052; Aug 1, 2018 at 10:55 pm Reason: edit quote
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Old Aug 1, 2018, 7:10 pm
  #213  
 
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Originally Posted by j2simpso
Would be interesting to board a domestic flight in Canada on AA/BA using my Aeroplan points...haven't been able to do that with OneWorld since Canadian left the market in the early 00s
You mean OW actually flies to Canada?

Let's do some math. If OW makes 8% of their seats available as rewards to AE members, and they have about 20,000 seats per year departing Canada (and none domestically), then how many AE points will those 1,600 seats cost, or how long (expressed in millenia) will the average AE member need to wait to be able to get a reward seat. (Somebody can probably point out that I am off by more than an order of magnitude on the number of OW seats departing Canada... But so what? As a percentage of *A seats they are such a trivial amount as to make the whole discussion laughably stupid. If I was a AE shareholder I would ask for the board to be replaced on the general grounds that they are clearly too dumb to tie their own shoe laces or even zip up on the way out the door in the morning, never mind run a business with a valuation of $250m or whatever the rapidly declining number is.
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Old Aug 1, 2018, 7:30 pm
  #214  
 
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Originally Posted by ridefar
You mean OW actually flies to Canada?

Let's do some math. If OW makes 8% of their seats available as rewards to AE members, and they have about 20,000 seats per year departing Canada (and none domestically), then how many AE points will those 1,600 seats cost, or how long (expressed in millenia) will the average AE member need to wait to be able to get a reward seat. (Somebody can probably point out that I am off by more than an order of magnitude on the number of OW seats departing Canada... But so what? As a percentage of *A seats they are such a trivial amount as to make the whole discussion laughably stupid. If I was a AE shareholder I would ask for the board to be replaced on the general grounds that they are clearly too dumb to tie their own shoe laces or even zip up on the way out the door in the morning, never mind run a business with a valuation of $250m or whatever the rapidly declining number is.
I'd honestly be curious to see what percent of Aeroplan members are Canadian. If the answer is a majority, perhaps Aeroplan could charter a shuttle to bring Canadians to US airports to avoid the cabotage issue of flying US airlines on domestic routes or CBC the issue to force the government's hand in creating an OpenSkies for domestic travel. One could only hope

Safe Travels,

James
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Old Aug 1, 2018, 8:21 pm
  #215  
 
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Originally Posted by ridefar
You mean OW actually flies to Canada?

Let's do some math. If OW makes 8% of their seats available as rewards to AE members, and they have about 20,000 seats per year departing Canada (and none domestically), then how many AE points will those 1,600 seats cost, or how long (expressed in millenia) will the average AE member need to wait to be able to get a reward seat. (Somebody can probably point out that I am off by more than an order of magnitude on the number of OW seats departing Canada... But so what? As a percentage of *A seats they are such a trivial amount as to make the whole discussion laughably stupid. If I was a AE shareholder I would ask for the board to be replaced on the general grounds that they are clearly too dumb to tie their own shoe laces or even zip up on the way out the door in the morning, never mind run a business with a valuation of $250m or whatever the rapidly declining number is.
Who are the main OW players in Canada? BA, CX and AA. Which bank do they have existing relationships with? RBC. Which other airline does RBC have a relationship with? WestJet. Add WestJet and RBC to the mix and you have a potentially very powerful player in the points game in Canada. The Aimia Board may not be as dumb as you think.

That may be a stretch but it's not impossible. It would be better long term for consumers.

Then again, this OW story may just be a gimmick to get the AC consortium to up their price.
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Old Aug 1, 2018, 9:10 pm
  #216  
 
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AE was left to fall mid last year. They were in survival mode. People worried and some said to burn the points asap, in case ae dies early.
But ae's quarterly results kept saying there was no run on redemption. Partly it was because many people couldn't get seats, but mostly because many people thought there's still lots of time. Anyway, redemptions didn't skyrocket.

AC still thought they crashed ae, and of course always considered buying ae back on the cheap.

Meanwhile ae contacted many airlines and alliances. They obviously got some assurances, then announced ae 2.0, especially confirming same redemption points for most flights, for nearly 20 airlines, and also hotels/cars/toasters. AC goes holy sht, ae is not dying but will be healthy, and ae database is very valuable and can even fall into competitors' hands. AC is also probably behind in building their own system. TD and CIBC is not necessarily as worried, as they are likely partners with AC in 2020 anyway, but would still find it beneficial to not lose ae customers, but more importantly to thwart ae partnering with other banks. So AC in panic mode, launched the hostile takeover. AC gave the Aug. 2 date, before ae's quarterly report which probably will be good, and rosy forecast.

Now there is confirmation ae is talking to Oneworld. Ae must also be talking to others. Ae suddently has a much stronger hand, and probably will ask for a much higher price from AC, or just show middle finger to AC and firm up partnership with AC's competitors.
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Old Aug 1, 2018, 9:22 pm
  #217  
 
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Oneworld ? the proverbial other shoe dropped and explains the haste and timeline of AC's offer for AE. RBC/Westjet/Oneworld explains AE stating that after AC you can redeem on 20 airlines. Oneworld has 13 partners and 30 affiliates.
My guess is that the 20 includes Oneworld, Westjet, Alaska and a few others.
Missing or at least not reported is if Amex and/or CapitalOne are involved somewhere other than RBC. Or maybe in lieu of RBC. Which may explain why Visa is in the other camp.
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Old Aug 1, 2018, 9:24 pm
  #218  
 
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So the AC bid expires tomorrow, and no vote has been held yet ?
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Old Aug 1, 2018, 9:26 pm
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Originally Posted by Yul_voyager
So the AC bid expires tomorrow, and no vote has been held yet ?
May have been held but no one will tell you till tomorrow :-)
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Old Aug 1, 2018, 9:43 pm
  #220  
 
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Originally Posted by Yul_voyager
So the AC bid expires tomorrow, and no vote has been held yet ?
You mean how many middle fingers were showing at AC?
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Old Aug 1, 2018, 10:19 pm
  #221  
 
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Originally Posted by jimmac
Who are the main OW players in Canada? BA, CX and AA. Which bank do they have existing relationships with? RBC. Which other airline does RBC have a relationship with? WestJet. Add WestJet and RBC to the mix and you have a potentially very powerful player in the points game in Canada. The Aimia Board may not be as dumb as you think.

That may be a stretch but it's not impossible. It would be better long term for consumers.

Then again, this OW story may just be a gimmick to get the AC consortium to up their price.
Yes. But. According to the article they are negotiating with OW not WS. With WS there is a glimmer of sense here. But without WS i maintain it is absurd. Like 3 Stooges absurd.
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Old Aug 1, 2018, 10:22 pm
  #222  
 
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Originally Posted by yscleo
You mean how many middle fingers were showing at AC?
Maybe but: Help me Obi Wan Kenobi youre my only hope! They can hate it all they want but they have one choice. Unless they take a 10 year perspective which neither cusomers nor the TSE are renowned for adopting.
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Old Aug 1, 2018, 10:49 pm
  #223  
 
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Originally Posted by mgn2000
From The Globe and Mail Aug 1 8:48 pm EDT
Aeroplans parent company, Aimia Inc., is in partnership talks with the Oneworld airline alliance as it fends off a hostile takeover bid from Air Canada and three financial partners.The talks, which Aimia confirmed on Wednesday, extend the companys efforts to reposition Aeroplan once its contract with Air Canada expires in 2020.<snip>Behind the scenes, Aimia has also been negotiating a new partnership with the Oneworld alliance, whose member airlines include British Airways, American Airlines and Cathay Pacific. Oneworld is a direct competitor to Star Alliance, of which Air Canada is a member.I can confirm that we are in discussions with Oneworld as a potential preferred airline partner, an Aimia spokesperson wrote in an e-mail to The Globe and Mail.The negotiations are continuing and may not result in a partnership...
oh snap.


Except, wait. This does nothing but shed a little light on what we knew they were doing anyway: discussing partnerships.

Does the Potential Preferred Airline Partner (PPAP) status level come with bonus points and a drink coupon code? If I make it to the Potential Platinum Preferred Airline Partner (PPPAP) level, can I get some true IKK love and actually find availability at the rates you claim?

They're buying time, sure. But little else. Could the whole OneWorld thing be workable? Sure, and the gamble may pay off handsomely. Or it may go bust. However at this point every day that AE drags talks with AC on, the more prepared AC is to wholly go it on their own, the less likely AE will get a fair value, or simply be left to wither in the cold.

It's another way of saying, "now give us your real offer Air Canada + financial friends." To be honest, I already consider my >>$2,300 in points pretty much stranded, and value the AeroPesoPlan brand accordingly. Therefore, I can't see AC upping the ante much.

It is however, turning out to be somewhat more interesting than I would have guessed.

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Old Aug 1, 2018, 11:02 pm
  #224  
 
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Originally Posted by jimmac
Who are the main OW players in Canada? BA, CX and AA. Which bank do they have existing relationships with? RBC. Which other airline does RBC have a relationship with? WestJet. Add WestJet and RBC to the mix and you have a potentially very powerful player in the points game in Canada. The Aimia Board may not be as dumb as you think.
Except for the fact that WestJet will be part of SkyTeam (see the recent announcement of the WS/DL JV, the fact that WS has walked away from AA and the fact that WS is actively making several improvements under the hood to their network, aircrafts (both hard and soft products) and potentially also revamping their FFP via Ampili). I find it inconceivable for WS to join a OW backed program given the direction they're going. The only reason I could see WS being interested in Aeroplan is they could "steal" all the customer data AC has on their most loyal frequent flyers which they can generously reward and comp to get them to switch over to the dark side. This could potentially scare AC into doing the right thing and giving Aimia a decent compensation for their asset.

That being said, the executives at Aeroplan are clearly stuck between a rock and a hard place: they have this very valuable business they have been milking for some time through lucrative offers with CC companies and partners but are locked in to Star Alliance thanks to their agreement with AC and *.

Safe Travels,

James

Safe Travels,

James
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Old Aug 2, 2018, 6:24 am
  #225  
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And should this all go pear-shaped for AP, then AC can legitimately say to wringing hand Feds and general public we tried, so sorry, boo-hoo

btw... AC will also say dont forget to join our new program, we have CC special on for early program joiners...come on board to new altitudes
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