Aug 21, 2018, 8:23 am
Last edit by: yyznomad
For those of you interested only in the revised $450-million deal and related discussion, it starts on post 418:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1926409-update-aimia-accepts-air-canada-td-cibc-visa-revised-450-million-aeroplan-bid-28.html#post30109427
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1926409-update-aimia-accepts-air-canada-td-cibc-visa-revised-450-million-aeroplan-bid-28.html#post30109427
Update: Aimia accepts Air Canada, TD, CIBC & Visa revised $450-million Aeroplan bid
Jul 26, 2018, 10:17 am
#136
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YYC, Canada
Programs: AC 35k
Posts: 1,898
It has a revenue-based flavour, but they don't award Aeroplan miles purely based on spend (though I wish they would) as distance and fare class matter. But the biggest difference - they have a fixed award chart. Delta does not. It's like only having market fares for Air Canada.
Jul 26, 2018, 10:57 am
#137
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: Only J via Peasant Points, 777HDPeasant or The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance and Narcissism.
Posts: 5,951
Jul 26, 2018, 11:23 am
#138
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: AC Lifetime SE100K, 3MM, SPG Lifetime Plat, Hertz PC, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,901
Jul 26, 2018, 11:24 am
#139
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: AC Lifetime SE100K, 3MM, SPG Lifetime Plat, Hertz PC, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,901
I hate to break it to you, but Air Canada's existing FF program is, in fact, a revenue-based garbage system. Ask around.
Indeed, it confirms what I've been saying for years. Air Canada couldn't care less about SEs or MMs or any FFs for that matter. Its "customers" only matter because they contribute to Calin's bonus.
Indeed, it confirms what I've been saying for years. Air Canada couldn't care less about SEs or MMs or any FFs for that matter. Its "customers" only matter because they contribute to Calin's bonus.
Jul 26, 2018, 11:48 am
#140
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto, Ont., Canada
Programs: Aeroplan; Marriott Platinum; IHG Platinum; Best Western Diamond
Posts: 2,153
And AC would be the first organization knocking on the bankruptcy trustees' door, trying to acquire the asset. Which the trustee basically would have to accept to protect the interests of the creditors. Basically AC is the only company that would actually be able to create or realize any value for the asset due to the deep integration between AC and AP that persists even to this day.
Its pretty obvious that Aimia knows that it would be implausible to realize any value from the assets in any other way. They know that the business they run is fundamentally unviable at the valuation that was 'paid' for the relationship with AC. And could not, and *did* not create any shareholder value.
..the long-term plan never really was for AP to be truly and fully independent of AC.
Its pretty obvious that Aimia knows that it would be implausible to realize any value from the assets in any other way. They know that the business they run is fundamentally unviable at the valuation that was 'paid' for the relationship with AC. And could not, and *did* not create any shareholder value.
..the long-term plan never really was for AP to be truly and fully independent of AC.
AC says they'll continue with their own FF program. They say that now. But after eating up ae, that can change.
Jul 26, 2018, 12:42 pm
#141
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton G,Nexus, Amex MR Plat,IHG Plat
Posts: 4,417
Well put. AC is the only party that could make use of ae system. TD/CIBC to a lesser extent. ae is not of much value to others. To Amex, ae is the most important transfer partner, but it won't have as much value to Amex to want to come with a competing bid, to the extent ae is of value to AC.
AC says they'll continue with their own FF program. They say that now. But after eating up ae, that can change.
AC says they'll continue with their own FF program. They say that now. But after eating up ae, that can change.
Jul 26, 2018, 1:16 pm
#142
Join Date: May 2003
Location: YEG
Programs: AC E50 MM, WJ Gold, Marriott Titanium Elite Lifetime
Posts: 3,082
1. Spin Aeroplan off for Billions
2. Tank the value since you won't renew contract and will compete directly with Aimia
3. Buy back for next to nothing
I can just imagine how exceptionally pleased Aimia shareholders are with this outcome.
Jul 26, 2018, 1:43 pm
#143
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto, Ont., Canada
Programs: Aeroplan; Marriott Platinum; IHG Platinum; Best Western Diamond
Posts: 2,153
To Amex this would be customer acquisition and spend delivering fees. The banks have got more competitive with Signature/Infinite cards and they subsidize the card fees with a basket of services. Amex lost Costco/Amex card not too long ago to Capital One which would IMHO have been around 15-20% of their card business. If Amex can keep AE running, they could redeem on other airlines, they get the customers and their spend back, they can sell other services like insurance and travel. Amex was also very annoyed when AC/AE went with TD when Amex had a bid in. Having AE would allow Amex more scale and would entice more merchants to sign up for accrual/redemption.
The value of ae to Amex, is much less than the value of ae to AC. AC and ae were not really separate. Amex wouldn't be coming with a competing bid, because Amex needs the key party AC together. AC already went with TD/CIBC/Visa, which would understandably shut out Amex. Well, Amex could still work out a business deal if it makes sense, but Amex would be an outsider trying to connect with ae.
Jul 26, 2018, 2:05 pm
#144
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton G,Nexus, Amex MR Plat,IHG Plat
Posts: 4,417
Amex was already losing when AC cut ae, now with this new bid, it is making the situation worse.
The value of ae to Amex, is much less than the value of ae to AC. AC and ae were not really separate. Amex wouldn't be coming with a competing bid, because Amex needs the key party AC together. AC already went with TD/CIBC/Visa, which would understandably shut out Amex. Well, Amex could still work out a business deal if it makes sense, but Amex would be an outsider trying to connect with ae.
The value of ae to Amex, is much less than the value of ae to AC. AC and ae were not really separate. Amex wouldn't be coming with a competing bid, because Amex needs the key party AC together. AC already went with TD/CIBC/Visa, which would understandably shut out Amex. Well, Amex could still work out a business deal if it makes sense, but Amex would be an outsider trying to connect with ae.
Jul 26, 2018, 2:25 pm
#145
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,441
Please note a few posts have been deleted as they were discussing an off topic matter, namely other airline offers for a different AIMIA loyalty program. Members wanting to carry on that conversation are encouraged to do so in the proper thread which is here.
Regards,
tcook052
AC forum Mod.
Regards,
tcook052
AC forum Mod.
Jul 26, 2018, 2:56 pm
#146
Join Date: Oct 2006
Programs: Aeroplan E75K
Posts: 49
“Q: Why are you giving Aimia a week to respond? Why can’t you give them more time?
A: (...) there have been other proposed transactions to purchase Aimia over the past several months.”
Maybe it wasn’t Amex but it looks like AC made this public now because they got wind of something else being cooked up.
Jul 26, 2018, 3:54 pm
#147
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: YYZ
Programs: AP
Posts: 436
I think Air Canada answered this question on their Q & A site: https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...questions.html
“Q: Why are you giving Aimia a week to respond? Why can’t you give them more time?
A: (...) there have been other proposed transactions to purchase Aimia over the past several months.”
Maybe it wasn’t Amex but it looks like AC made this public now because they got wind of something else being cooked up.
I believe the deadline is also the day before Aimia releases their latest quarterly results, which is interesting as they may know they are positive and want to get in cheap.
Jul 26, 2018, 3:56 pm
#148
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: YYG
Programs: airlines and hotels and rental cars - oh my!
Posts: 2,993
"Revenue-based flavour?" Well that's one way to put it. You need to achieve spending targets to attain various levels of status ($20k in the case of SE) and your ability to earn qualifying miles is at least partially dependent on fare bucket. That's more than a "revenue-based flavour" .... it's entirely based on spending. There's no other way to put it.
As far as Aeroplan redemptions go, that too is revenue-based. Spend more, attain higher status, enjoy better availability. Nothing wrong with that by the way, but it too is absolutely revenue-based.
Whoops, original quote I responded to fell off the repost I guess.
As far as Aeroplan redemptions go, that too is revenue-based. Spend more, attain higher status, enjoy better availability. Nothing wrong with that by the way, but it too is absolutely revenue-based.
Whoops, original quote I responded to fell off the repost I guess.
Jul 26, 2018, 4:32 pm
#149
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,562
I would love for a revenue based system entirely based on spending.