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AC revises its alcohol and drug policy to include cannabis ahead of legalization

AC revises its alcohol and drug policy to include cannabis ahead of legalization

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Old Aug 13, 18, 7:46 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by trek604 View Post
What would happen if you were on a YVR-YYZ flight, in possession of pot, which diverted to ORD in case of emergency? Then you would have transported narcotics across the American border. Wouldn't want to be busted for that lol. The Americans would probably bar you from the country for life.
The passengers would like have to stay on the plane or be put in a detention area where they have not legally entered the US; most likely would not be carrying their passports. I was once on a plane that was diverted to Ireland for medical reasons and no one was allowed off.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 8:14 pm
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Diversions to the US would likely be very different from all other countries!

Originally Posted by arttravel View Post
The passengers would like have to stay on the plane or be put in a detention area where they have not legally entered the US; most likely would not be carrying their passports. I was once on a plane that was diverted to Ireland for medical reasons and no one was allowed off.
It really doesn't matter whether or not you're supposed to be there.

Should you "accidentally" end up physically in the U.S. you're "fair game" for and within the jurisdiction of their CBP - and subject to U.S. laws.

The golden rule really will have to be don't ever carry cannabis on any flight in any form whatsoever.
Don't ever think you're "safe" because you are on a domestic flight either!
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Old Aug 13, 18, 8:26 pm
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For someone with a lot of questions, one missing question might be how to spell cannabis.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 8:36 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by skybluesea View Post
Instead, serious issues coming from the lack of an effective and demonstrated legal enforcement practice for flight crews , FA, mechanics etc that will certainly be causing huge legal headaches right now for AC HR & Risk Mgmt.

All jokes aside, this is NOT a theoretical issue - here in little over 60 days and nada from AC that can have serious ops issues for all of us, at least till ops solutions mature.
I don't understand this.

My employment contract says I can't be intoxicated at work. It may go as far as to specify "drugs or alcohol". I highly doubt AC has an employment contract that says "mechanics must not be under the influence of alcohol", but doesn't also go further to say "or other substances".

I wouldn't worry.
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Old Aug 13, 18, 9:13 pm
  #20  
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The OP brings up a serious issue that is bedeviling pretty much every employer (and service industry). I think it is safe to assume that cannabis consumption by employees is already covered in the employee manuals. It doesn't matter whether intoxicants are "legal" or not, employer can still prohibit being "under the influence" - and in safety sensitive roles they have the ability to conduct random drug testing as well as post-incident testing.

Sometime between now and October 17th, AC will change their rules to prohibit the consumption of cannabis onboard (people with "prescriptions" do present a special problem and it is unclear where the government regulations will land on this one). For those who partake prior to departure, they will likely enforce similar rules as alcohol - if you appear impaired, you run the risk of being denied boarding. If you act up during the flight you risk being strapped down and/or the flight gets diverted and the passenger gets handed over to local law enforcement. I suspect they won't allow consumption in the MLL, but if you are discreet about your edibles, it will be pretty hard to enforce (there is a "no outside food rule that already exists).
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Old Aug 13, 18, 10:42 pm
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Originally Posted by TemboOne View Post
It really doesn't matter whether or not you're supposed to be there.

Should you "accidentally" end up physically in the U.S. you're "fair game" for and within the jurisdiction of their CBP - and subject to U.S. laws.

The golden rule really will have to be don't ever carry cannabis on any flight in any form whatsoever.
Don't ever think you're "safe" because you are on a domestic flight either!
My diverted flight was one where we never got off, just the sick passenger (heart attack); then refuel and back to NYC. Now if a diversion for a bomb threat I could see clearing the plane and searching everyone.

But you you are correct, never risk crossing international borders with drugs that are classified as illegal. during the 90s when I returned to the US from Europe I was often asked “Did you go to Amsterdam?”.

And as for the OP — I imagine businesses are still looking at the legal requirements on how to adjust policies. Many issues will be covered under workplace working under the influence policies.

What they ban passgers from? Edibles? how well would it be enforced?




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Old Aug 14, 18, 1:08 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by skybluesea View Post

Instead, serious issues coming from the lack of an effective and demonstrated legal enforcement practice for flight crews , FA, mechanics etc that will certainly be causing huge legal headaches right now for AC HR & Risk Mgmt.
What about people in my profession? You seem awfully worried about AC but what about other airlines or other safely critical occupations???

OH MY GOSH!!!! The SKY is FALLING!!!!!!
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Old Aug 14, 18, 7:50 am
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
I don't understand this.

My employment contract says I can't be intoxicated at work. It may go as far as to specify "drugs or alcohol". I highly doubt AC has an employment contract that says "mechanics must not be under the influence of alcohol", but doesn't also go further to say "or other substances".

I wouldn't worry.
and Canada has a proven and reliable test for alcohol impairment, thoroughly tested in the Courts that cannot be said for THC.

So when a AC PIC, FA, or Mech is accused of THC impairment that NOT only could cost then their job, but if on active duty, criminal sanction and possible loss of liberty, the stakes get serious very quickly.

And unlike alcohol, THC metabolites can linger for weeks or longer, so what test will confirm NOT just presence but impairment as well - so GoC has in recent weeks just introduced new regs but they remain untested, and activists fully intend to challenge these regs on Oct 17th, the moment they come into force.

in the world of public safety where I give a great deal of my professional and academic attention too, getting this balance wrong could mean loss of a job or liberty, or having the Courts throw out these new methods to detect and confirm impairment which can put us all at risk - until better approaches are verified through implementation and later by the Courts.

And what does AC do in telling the traveling public when such s test of their staff hits the Courts, and big time to the media so @The Lev post above is spot on.

The stakes here are enormous either way...and that is is why I worry
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Old Aug 14, 18, 8:36 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by skybluesea View Post
And unlike alcohol, THC metabolites can linger for weeks or longer, so what test will confirm NOT just presence but impairment as well - so GoC has in recent weeks just introduced new regs but they remain untested, and activists fully intend to challenge these regs on Oct 17th, the moment they come into force.
THC metabolites linger for about a month in blood tests, which is why many organizations (including police for roadside tests) are moving in the direction of saliva tests where the metabolites are recognized sooner and also dissipate within hours rather than weeks.

Having said that, AC may be in a sufficiently safety-sensitive field that they are able to argue successfully for zero tolerance - even if the substance is legal. It will be interesting to watch the direction taken by the courts.
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Old Aug 14, 18, 8:53 am
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My assumption is the policy will be no personal cannabis consumption on any flights (same as alcohol). I further assume AC will not be selling edibles any time in the near future, but more likely never.

The question becomes then one of whether a person can carry it with them, as opposed to consumption. Again, my assumption will be that it will not be allowed.

How AC can possibly enforce any of the above will be the big question. Personal alcohol consumption is easier to enforce.. chances are somebody will see someone pouring something (though I am sure a lot of it goes unnoticed now in plastic/personal bottles carried on board (hence no self-serve in YYC MLL)...If somebody pulls out their own food and decides to eat it, it could be undetectable.

I do foresee a spike in diverted landings until some of this gets tested and properly resolved.
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Old Aug 14, 18, 1:02 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by TemboOne View Post
It really doesn't matter whether or not you're supposed to be there.

Should you "accidentally" end up physically in the U.S. you're "fair game" for and within the jurisdiction of their CBP - and subject to U.S. laws.

The golden rule really will have to be don't ever carry cannabis on any flight in any form whatsoever.
Don't ever think you're "safe" because you are on a domestic flight either!
If you actually ended up having to enter the US, then simply declare it and have it tossed if entering in a state where it is illegal. CBP is obviously a federal area, but in terms of the leaf they currently go by state law in terms of "personal" amounts.
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Old Aug 14, 18, 2:23 pm
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
If you actually ended up having to enter the US, then simply declare it and have it tossed if entering in a state where it is illegal. CBP is obviously a federal area, but in terms of the leaf they currently go by state law in terms of "personal" amounts.
Probably a good way to kiss your Nexus card goodbye as well.
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Old Aug 14, 18, 2:28 pm
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
If you actually ended up having to enter the US, then simply declare it and have it tossed if entering in a state where it is illegal. CBP is obviously a federal area, but in terms of the leaf they currently go by state law in terms of "personal" amounts.
Uh no, CBP goes by federal law which says marijuana is illegal. State law does not apply. If you get diverted leave it in the overhead, seat pocket or somewhere else on the aircraft were it can't be definitively be linked with you.
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Old Aug 14, 18, 3:05 pm
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Badenoch View Post
Uh no, CBP goes by federal law which says marijuana is illegal. State law does not apply. If you get diverted leave it in the overhead, seat pocket or somewhere else on the aircraft were it can't be definitively be linked with you.
agree with first two sentences - third, well, good luck as border agent primary task are to be human lie detectors - you get asked even if hidden, trained officers job is to find what is supposedly hidden.

best advice from number of posts, leave it behind if going anywhere near a border.
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Old Aug 14, 18, 4:08 pm
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
If you actually ended up having to enter the US, then simply declare it and have it tossed if entering in a state where it is illegal. CBP is obviously a federal area, but in terms of the leaf they currently go by state law in terms of "personal" amounts.
I disagree. The US CBP has been coming down hard on Canadians whether or not it is for personal use. One is at the mercy of the person processing people, and there are some agents who are nasty and mean. Civil liberties lawyers and the Canadian government counsel a zero possession approach when crossing the US border.
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