Husband, 10 & 12 year old daughters kicked off flight and abandoned in Rome
Aug 2, 2018, 10:35 am
#61
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Assist is not the same as lifting. There is also a rule whereby one should not carry a bag heavier than what one can lift.
Aug 2, 2018, 10:35 am
#62
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thanks, just struck me that what was message to these children - kids will otherwise forget what airline did, but pretty likely daddy will relive this story forever.
Learned long ago when LittleSkyBlueSea came long that everything I do and way I treat others in LSBS presence can generate enormous life-long complications. I’m definitely NOT a Pacifist by nature, but my respect for LSBS future meant a fundamental shift, hopefully for the better.
Cannot say anything about OP and his children, but get a grip remains valid in their presence.
Like you though, I have children (6!!) and am acutely aware that teaching them to respect all around them and to always seek the peaceful path cannot come through telling them so, but by doing so in their presence.
I think the OP made his first critical mistake when he failed to tell his daughters from 3 positions behind them, "slip into that row of seats and out of the aisle so others can pass and I will be able to help you in about 28 seconds". It really is that simple. Teach your kids that what they cannot do for themselves should be provided by YOU the parent.
Aug 2, 2018, 10:39 am
#63
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reference #: xxxxxx
Flight 893
July 23, 2018To Whom It May Concern,
I am writing to file a formal complaint for the rude and unprofessional way that I was treated on Air Canada Flight 893 from Rome to Montreal. I was traveling with my two daughters (ages 10 and 12). We boarded our flight with carry-on bags. My daughters walked on the plane in front of me with their carry-ons, and I was behind them with my carry-on and my backpack and some shopping bags. I moved into my seat to let other passengers pass. My 12 year old daughter lifted her bag up with no problem, but a flight attendant came up to her and told her in a very rude and abrupt manner that her bag was in the overhead bin incorrectly. When my daughter was struggling rotating the bag, the flight attendant switched it for her. At that point I saw my younger daughter struggling trying to hoist her bag into the overhead (again, I was not close to them, I had two people and a bunch of bags between us) and I asked if the flight attendant could help her too. She replied, "NO I CAN'T. THAT IS NOT MY JOB. IT IS YOUR JOB TO HELP YOUR KIDS." I was shocked. I replied, in a calm manner, that I thought part of a flight attendant's job was customer service. She said no, her job was safety. I told her I work in customer service (I own 2 hair salons/spas) and that being a flight attendant was definitely a customer service job. She said no, it was safety. I said it was service and she grabbed my younger daughter’s bag in a very aggressive way and practically threw it into the overhead and stormed away.
After about 10 minutes had passed, a second flight attendant came up to me and asked if there was a problem. I said no there wasn't a problem. She said she heard that there was an altercation between me and another flight attendant. I told her yes, that I thought it was ridiculous that she wouldn't help my daughter with her bag, and said that her job was safety, and a bag falling on the head of a 10 year old child didn't seem to be a safety concern. She told me that she didn't have insurance so if they were injured medically Air Canada wouldn't pay for their medical bills. She seemed to be there to understand what happened on behalf of the first flight attendant. Once she heard my story, she went to get the first flight attendant.
When they both came back, the first flight attendant said "I am still waiting for your apology". I said, "I don't need to apologize to you, the only person I need to apologize to are all the people who are waiting on this flight for this to be resolved". At that point, both of the flight attendants stormed off. At that point, two other passengers stood up, called another flight attendant, and told him I did nothing wrong, that the first flight attendant was blowing everything completely out of proportion.
After about another 10 minutes the captain came up to us, didn't ask a single question, and said, we needed to leave the plane. Again, more passengers came up to the captain and repeated that I did nothing wrong. The captain said that the paperwork was already happening and that I had to leave. I want to repeat, I was told that I needed to apologize to the first flight attendant for my behavior. I didn't raise my voice, I didn't call anyone a name, I didn't call her anything derogatory. I simply said that being a flight attendant is a job that requires customer service. I never even stood up - and for not apologizing my entire family (again, including a 10 year old and a 12 year old) were thrown off of a plane.
My girls want to point out that there were two very kind flight attendants who was crying (because both of my girls were sobbing at this point) and one gave them hugs. When I was leaving, the captain took me to the front of the plane, apologized, and said we will get you on the next flight to Toronto in 1 1/2 hours and you will be back to Chicago soon.
MAYBE if it ended here, I wouldn't be writing emails, my wife wouldn't be on the verge of blowing up every social media platform she has available as her job is social media. She works for an INFLUENCER AGENCY so she can make this ordeal much much bigger than it is so far. But it did not end here.
The bus dropped us off where buses drop you at Rome to pick up your luggage. We went to the Air Canada desk at check in to try to see about the flight to Toronto that the captain had referenced. There was no one there. At that point, I went to airport information desk, and they gave me a phone number for Air Canada and Lufthansa. I walked to the Lufthansa office which was also closed. At that point I realized Air Canada or Lufthansa would not help me so I called my wife in the US. My wife called Air Canada. Air Canada said they could not do anything since Lufthansa owned the ticket. At that point my wife called Lufthansa and they said they could not find any record of the ticket (because it was suspended at that time). Then my wife called American Express since she booked the ticket through them initially. They called Air Canada (who told her to call Lufthansa) and then Lufthansa who told them that they had canceled the ticket as that is their policy.
My wife then booked tickets back to the US for my daughters and me. We booked a hotel online in Rome and took the train to the hotel since we assumed no more flights were going out that night. Once we arrived at the hotel, my wife called us back and told us she got us on a flight out to overnight in Lisbon, Portugal and continue our journey next day. We took the train back to the airport, booked a hotel in Portugal, and got to the front of the ticket line where we were told we had no tickets. It turns out TAP could not confirm the seats held by UAL, so my wife found a flight the next morning, with Swiss Air via Zurich. So we took the train back to Rome again (fortunately I had not canceled my reservation at the Rome hotel) and stayed the night.
The next day was seamless, our flight was one hour late to Zurich and we almost missed our connection, but there was a bus and flight attendants who explained the situation and made sure the next flight waited for us. I am grateful my girls ended their Italy trip with such a positive experience after the traumatic experience of the Air Canada flight the previous day.
Needless to say, the entire fiasco was extremely expensive. I would like to be reimbursed for 3 one way, same day tickets to the US, our hotel rooms in Rome and Lisbon, food for 2 days, and a missed day at my salon. All together I think $10,000 would be a conservative estimate.
I cannot tell you how shocked and disappointed I was in this experience on so many levels. Just because an adult demanded an apology, her ego created a domino effect, that was completely unnecessary, but there were so many level-headed Air Canada employees that could have but, for whatever reason, did not stop it.
I am available at your convenience for any additional details that you wish provided. I look forward to a positive resolution to this matter along with a complete restitution of the financial loss incurred.
Sincerely,
Flight 893
July 23, 2018To Whom It May Concern,
I am writing to file a formal complaint for the rude and unprofessional way that I was treated on Air Canada Flight 893 from Rome to Montreal. I was traveling with my two daughters (ages 10 and 12). We boarded our flight with carry-on bags. My daughters walked on the plane in front of me with their carry-ons, and I was behind them with my carry-on and my backpack and some shopping bags. I moved into my seat to let other passengers pass. My 12 year old daughter lifted her bag up with no problem, but a flight attendant came up to her and told her in a very rude and abrupt manner that her bag was in the overhead bin incorrectly. When my daughter was struggling rotating the bag, the flight attendant switched it for her. At that point I saw my younger daughter struggling trying to hoist her bag into the overhead (again, I was not close to them, I had two people and a bunch of bags between us) and I asked if the flight attendant could help her too. She replied, "NO I CAN'T. THAT IS NOT MY JOB. IT IS YOUR JOB TO HELP YOUR KIDS." I was shocked. I replied, in a calm manner, that I thought part of a flight attendant's job was customer service. She said no, her job was safety. I told her I work in customer service (I own 2 hair salons/spas) and that being a flight attendant was definitely a customer service job. She said no, it was safety. I said it was service and she grabbed my younger daughter’s bag in a very aggressive way and practically threw it into the overhead and stormed away.
After about 10 minutes had passed, a second flight attendant came up to me and asked if there was a problem. I said no there wasn't a problem. She said she heard that there was an altercation between me and another flight attendant. I told her yes, that I thought it was ridiculous that she wouldn't help my daughter with her bag, and said that her job was safety, and a bag falling on the head of a 10 year old child didn't seem to be a safety concern. She told me that she didn't have insurance so if they were injured medically Air Canada wouldn't pay for their medical bills. She seemed to be there to understand what happened on behalf of the first flight attendant. Once she heard my story, she went to get the first flight attendant.
When they both came back, the first flight attendant said "I am still waiting for your apology". I said, "I don't need to apologize to you, the only person I need to apologize to are all the people who are waiting on this flight for this to be resolved". At that point, both of the flight attendants stormed off. At that point, two other passengers stood up, called another flight attendant, and told him I did nothing wrong, that the first flight attendant was blowing everything completely out of proportion.
After about another 10 minutes the captain came up to us, didn't ask a single question, and said, we needed to leave the plane. Again, more passengers came up to the captain and repeated that I did nothing wrong. The captain said that the paperwork was already happening and that I had to leave. I want to repeat, I was told that I needed to apologize to the first flight attendant for my behavior. I didn't raise my voice, I didn't call anyone a name, I didn't call her anything derogatory. I simply said that being a flight attendant is a job that requires customer service. I never even stood up - and for not apologizing my entire family (again, including a 10 year old and a 12 year old) were thrown off of a plane.
My girls want to point out that there were two very kind flight attendants who was crying (because both of my girls were sobbing at this point) and one gave them hugs. When I was leaving, the captain took me to the front of the plane, apologized, and said we will get you on the next flight to Toronto in 1 1/2 hours and you will be back to Chicago soon.
MAYBE if it ended here, I wouldn't be writing emails, my wife wouldn't be on the verge of blowing up every social media platform she has available as her job is social media. She works for an INFLUENCER AGENCY so she can make this ordeal much much bigger than it is so far. But it did not end here.
The bus dropped us off where buses drop you at Rome to pick up your luggage. We went to the Air Canada desk at check in to try to see about the flight to Toronto that the captain had referenced. There was no one there. At that point, I went to airport information desk, and they gave me a phone number for Air Canada and Lufthansa. I walked to the Lufthansa office which was also closed. At that point I realized Air Canada or Lufthansa would not help me so I called my wife in the US. My wife called Air Canada. Air Canada said they could not do anything since Lufthansa owned the ticket. At that point my wife called Lufthansa and they said they could not find any record of the ticket (because it was suspended at that time). Then my wife called American Express since she booked the ticket through them initially. They called Air Canada (who told her to call Lufthansa) and then Lufthansa who told them that they had canceled the ticket as that is their policy.
My wife then booked tickets back to the US for my daughters and me. We booked a hotel online in Rome and took the train to the hotel since we assumed no more flights were going out that night. Once we arrived at the hotel, my wife called us back and told us she got us on a flight out to overnight in Lisbon, Portugal and continue our journey next day. We took the train back to the airport, booked a hotel in Portugal, and got to the front of the ticket line where we were told we had no tickets. It turns out TAP could not confirm the seats held by UAL, so my wife found a flight the next morning, with Swiss Air via Zurich. So we took the train back to Rome again (fortunately I had not canceled my reservation at the Rome hotel) and stayed the night.
The next day was seamless, our flight was one hour late to Zurich and we almost missed our connection, but there was a bus and flight attendants who explained the situation and made sure the next flight waited for us. I am grateful my girls ended their Italy trip with such a positive experience after the traumatic experience of the Air Canada flight the previous day.
Needless to say, the entire fiasco was extremely expensive. I would like to be reimbursed for 3 one way, same day tickets to the US, our hotel rooms in Rome and Lisbon, food for 2 days, and a missed day at my salon. All together I think $10,000 would be a conservative estimate.
I cannot tell you how shocked and disappointed I was in this experience on so many levels. Just because an adult demanded an apology, her ego created a domino effect, that was completely unnecessary, but there were so many level-headed Air Canada employees that could have but, for whatever reason, did not stop it.
I am available at your convenience for any additional details that you wish provided. I look forward to a positive resolution to this matter along with a complete restitution of the financial loss incurred.
Sincerely,
At the very least he was argumentative. The FA also was quite right that the daughter being unable to lift her bag was a safety concern. Just wait until someone's bag falls on your head, as it happened to a colleague of mine, who suffered from side effects for quite a while afterwards. That alone was already wrong.
You seriously think the captain would kick someone out who did nothing wrong?
You seriously think the captain would kick someone out who did nothing wrong?
So what your saying is that if the FA helped and dropped the bag its a safety concern but if the 10 yr old girl did, it was fine. The bag has to go up, the safety issue is the same whoever puts it there.
If the FA said the pax was abusive (right or wrong) and threatened not to fly, the captain would offload the pax as this is an outstation. There is no other way to get the aircraft out. If the OP is correct, the Captain made the decision without talking to the OP so perhaps he had no choice.
Last edited by tcook052; Aug 2, 2018 at 1:25 pm
Aug 2, 2018, 10:41 am
#64
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I am most certainly not a pacifist either - I was being a little playful with regards to the international rep of Canadians.
Like you though, I have children (6!!) and am acutely aware that teaching them to respect all around them and to always seek the peaceful path cannot come through telling them so, but by doing so in their presence.
I think the OP made his first critical mistake when he failed to tell his daughters from 3 positions behind them, "slip into that row of seats and out of the aisle so others can pass and I will be able to help you in about 28 seconds". It really is that simple. Teach your kids that what they cannot do for themselves should be provided by YOU the parent.
Like you though, I have children (6!!) and am acutely aware that teaching them to respect all around them and to always seek the peaceful path cannot come through telling them so, but by doing so in their presence.
I think the OP made his first critical mistake when he failed to tell his daughters from 3 positions behind them, "slip into that row of seats and out of the aisle so others can pass and I will be able to help you in about 28 seconds". It really is that simple. Teach your kids that what they cannot do for themselves should be provided by YOU the parent.
well done
Aug 2, 2018, 10:43 am
#65
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We are talking about a 10 yr old who perhaps could not put the bag up. And her father was two rows away and could not help.
So what your saying is that if the FA helped and dropped the bag its a safety concern but if the 10 yr old girl did, it was fine. The bag has to go up, the safety issue is the same whoever puts it there.
So what your saying is that if the FA helped and dropped the bag its a safety concern but if the 10 yr old girl did, it was fine. The bag has to go up, the safety issue is the same whoever puts it there.
And that there should be no expectation that an FA would help. Especially if the bag was heavy.
Aug 2, 2018, 10:53 am
#66
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AC's FA's are lying sacks. they just are. of one the one airline that DOES NOT get any benefit of the doubt it is this airline and it's FA's.
Aug 2, 2018, 10:58 am
#67
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Huh. Before my days of status, when we traveled with a very young child (less than 2) along with 2 other kids the GA insisted in gate checking our bags. When the baby was crying, the FA then asked us if we had any toys to help sooth the baby. When we explained what happened to our bags she then proceeded to apologize to all the other pax near us telling them that the parents forgot to bring anything to help calm the baby. Very condescending and implying that its our fault. Then she came round and did it again. So please do not assume that every interaction is roses.
Aug 2, 2018, 11:00 am
#68
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You think a 10 year old should be able to lift a bag and safely store it overhead ? I'd rather not see that as that would be a safety issue. You are right that her dad should have and as he has pointed out, he was unable to do so due to other passengers being in the way.
Aug 2, 2018, 11:01 am
#69
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Aspen, CO
Posts: 792
Stupid.
The FA should've helped a child. End of story.
The FA should've helped a child. End of story.
Aug 2, 2018, 11:29 am
#70
Join Date: Aug 2008
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We are talking about a 10 yr old who perhaps could not put the bag up. And her father was two rows away and could not help.
So what your saying is that if the FA helped and dropped the bag its a safety concern but if the 10 yr old girl did, it was fine. The bag has to go up, the safety issue is the same whoever puts it there.
If the FA said the pax was abusive (right or wrong) and threatened not to fly, the captain would offload the pax as this is an outstation. There is no other way to get the aircraft out. If the OP is correct, the Captain made the decision without talking to the OP so perhaps he had no choice.
So what your saying is that if the FA helped and dropped the bag its a safety concern but if the 10 yr old girl did, it was fine. The bag has to go up, the safety issue is the same whoever puts it there.
If the FA said the pax was abusive (right or wrong) and threatened not to fly, the captain would offload the pax as this is an outstation. There is no other way to get the aircraft out. If the OP is correct, the Captain made the decision without talking to the OP so perhaps he had no choice.
Aug 2, 2018, 11:35 am
#71
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Huh. Before my days of status, when we traveled with a very young child (less than 2) along with 2 other kids the GA insisted in gate checking our bags. When the baby was crying, the FA then asked us if we had any toys to help sooth the baby. When we explained what happened to our bags she then proceeded to apologize to all the other pax near us telling them that the parents forgot to bring anything to help calm the baby. Very condescending and implying that its our fault. Then she came round and did it again. So please do not assume that every interaction is roses.
Aug 2, 2018, 11:43 am
#72
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But common courtesy would also be for the FA to help a 10 yr old. Its not like the father asked for help putting up his own bag. Even the 12 year old put up their bag. We have all seen FAs help elderly passengers or disabled passengers, we have seen them move bags around to accommodate other bags including removing from one bin and placing them in another or even moving them to J bins - so what's with the cast in stone attitude that we are only here for safety ? Even passengers help other passengers like when deplaning and your bag is 5 bins away. This sounds like someone having a bad day and then powertripping. Again assuming the OPs version is accurate.
Aug 2, 2018, 11:52 am
#73
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Yes, off course. That's what he should have done.
But common courtesy would also be for the FA to help a 10 yr old. Its not like the father asked for help putting up his own bag. Even the 12 year old put up their bag. We have all seen FAs help elderly passengers or disabled passengers, we have seen them move bags around to accommodate other bags including removing from one bin and placing them in another or even moving them to J bins - so what's with the cast in stone attitude that we are only here for safety ? Even passengers help other passengers like when deplaning and your bag is 5 bins away. This sounds like someone having a bad day and then powertripping. Again assuming the OPs version is accurate.
But common courtesy would also be for the FA to help a 10 yr old. Its not like the father asked for help putting up his own bag. Even the 12 year old put up their bag. We have all seen FAs help elderly passengers or disabled passengers, we have seen them move bags around to accommodate other bags including removing from one bin and placing them in another or even moving them to J bins - so what's with the cast in stone attitude that we are only here for safety ? Even passengers help other passengers like when deplaning and your bag is 5 bins away. This sounds like someone having a bad day and then powertripping. Again assuming the OPs version is accurate.
Sometimes in Italy a relatively minor dispute can blow into a bigger thing than it is (eg a minor fender bender). That approach will not work well on an AC plane. Measured complaining is one thing, but raising a fuss beyond a certain point will generally do you no favours.
Aug 2, 2018, 11:58 am
#74
Join Date: Apr 2016
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There are two sides of the story.
1. There are some DYKWIA type passengers.
2. There are some DYKWIA type FAs.
When 1 and 2 mix up, we get stories like this.
1. There are some DYKWIA type passengers.
2. There are some DYKWIA type FAs.
When 1 and 2 mix up, we get stories like this.
Aug 2, 2018, 12:06 pm
#75
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: YOW
Posts: 1,024
We shouldn't assume that the bag was too heavy for the 10 yr old to lift. How many 10 yr olds would be tall enough to reach the overhead bins?
