Hellfire

Hi all, could use some advise here on how to deal with AC denial of my EC Regulation claim.

I booked a Round trip flight from YEG to LIS departing on July 4, 2018 and returning on July 16, 2018. The return flight is the issue here.
Original Schedule:
AC 1917 LIS-YYZ Departing 12:50 arriving in YYZ at 16:00 then taking AC173 from YYZ to YEG departing at 18:55 arriving in YEG at 21:00 all on July 16, 2018

On July 8th I received a itinerary change notification from Air Canada informing me that my flight AC 1917 from LIS - YYZ was now departing at 16:45, arriving at 19:55. My connection was also changed to AC177 departing at 23:25 from YYZ arriving in YEG at 1:30 on July 17

Due to further delays my flight from LIS to YYZ did not actually depart till 17:12 and I did not actually arrive in YEG till 02:40 in July 17th.

I emailed AC to request compensation, and they replied no:
"

Dave Noble

With a change occurring on the 8th July , there is no realistic way that i can see that extraordinary circumstances can be claimed for the rescheduling

With it being < 2 weeks before departure , then I believe that there is entitlement to EUR600 compensation for the change that occurred that day

Perhaps AC is being disingenuous in its reply and trying to refer to the delay on day of departure

I would be pushing back and quoting the relevant parts of the regulation and only refer to the scheduled change and not mention the delay on day of departure

Bohemian1

With regards to the reschedule, I know there was a proposal to treat reschedules with less than two weeks warning effectively the same as a cancellation - did that get adopted?

simons1

Not sure whether you have an equivalent of the UK MCOL but get going with legal action. The burden of proof rests with the airline in these things. Sounds a regulation lie to me.

Hellfire

Could you advise which parts would apply? Reading the regulation I'm unclear which parts apply in my case.

pewpew

Two weeks is for cancelations. Does it apply for delays too? There's probably some court case dealing with that issue

Often1

The dates and times do not make sense. You state that your original return was LIS-YYZ-YEG on 16 July and the change was to LIS-YYZ-YEG departing on 16 July and arriving into YEG on 18 July. Where was the extra day and why was that, e.g., why did you not arrive into YEG on 17 July (it now being past midnight)?

Hellfire

Sorry typo on my part. Yes, did arrive on July 17 early morning.

Bohemian1

This kinda falls into two parts - the reschedule and the delay on the day.

Starting with the reschedule, my understanding (and I've been wrong before) is that compensation is not due in some cases, including this one:

"the passenger has been informed of the cancellation between 14 and 7 days prior to departure and the alternative flight departs no more than 2 hours before the original departure time and arrives no more than 4 hours after the scheduled arrival time" (italics mine)

In this case, the OP seems to have been informed 7 days in advance and the ultimate arrival delay was just over 4 hours.

The problem is that the language above refers to cancellations and I'm still not sure if changes were ever made (they were proposed) to the regulations to have these apply to reschedules as well. It could be moot, but I'm not sure.

The second delay on the day isn't long enough to get any comp anyway.

YEG USER

It appears to me (on my limited amount of research) that Bohemian1 is likely right. There was a schedule change (not a cancellation) that occurred over 1 week prior to departure, and it doesn't appear to be specifically covered by regulations. Closest thing I could find was here:

https://www.mylawyer.co.uk/schedule-...-A76076D35259/

Your flight number is the same; you likely accepted the schedule change by not requesting a re-route in advance and by boarding your original flight number. Looks to me like the scheduled time published July 8 will be the "scheduled" departure time, and that you were 1:10 late at destination compared to that, so I don't think compensation is due. Of course, IANAL.

Jagboi

It's worth reading the 261 on the BA forum, they have excellent advice for interpretation of the regulations and how to proceed when an airline denies the claim. Post 3 will be particularly useful for you.


The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

Dave Noble

It has been ruled that delays count which is why a 4+ hour delay will earn the same compensation as a cancellation

I would have trouble seeing how the airline could change the time of the flight 7 days in advance and get out of paying compensation

Hellfire

Hmm do you have a link to a ruling that supports a using the originals scheduled flight as the basis for calculation the delay, or that the changes were a defacto cancellation?

It seems the changes were made by AC to deliberately avoid paying compensation.

Often1

Do not bother playing lawyer, even if you are one, quoting the Regulation and precedential decisions of various courts. AC knows all of those better than you do. It has made a decision that it will likely get away with changing the departure time such that your arrival appears not to be sufficiently delayed. That was a conscious act and not an error to be corrected.

Your choices:

1. Turn this matter over to one of the claims agencies. They typically take 25-33% of the loot, but handle all of the details. They also only get paid if they win so won't take a claim they can't win. A good barometer for you as they are not emotional, just engaging in a business transaction.

2. As this is not a violation of Canadian law, your choice of law here comes down to Portugal. File an action in Portugal.

3. Put this behind you and move on.

Your choice.

dulciusexasperis

Call me simple but they rescheduled a flight and they informed you of the change. You did not object to that change and you boarded the rescheduled flight (the departure delay is irrelevant). So just why would you think you are entitled to compensation? The time to object was when you were informed of the rescheduling of the flight, but even then, AC is entitled to make schedule changes. You are entitled to not accept a change and ask for a refund. Then you find an alternative means of transportation that suits you better.

I see no reason why you might be entitled to any compensation at all. But it's your time to waste.