vernonc

Just arrived today on AC Rouge AC1694 YLW-YYZ. To my surprise, we taxied all the way to the East side where there seemed to be several AC aircraft parked. Then we had disembarkation via stairs and a bus ride back to domestic past the US TB arrivals etc.
Is there a shortage of gates, busy time of day (Wed 6pm) or some construction at gates ? I do not think I have been bused on arrival at YYZ in at least 10 years.

SparseFlyer

Does anyone have Intel on a T1 expansion, or some airlines being asked to move away from T1?

smallmj

According to the YYZ Master plan, page 61, the transborder sheds (gate 193 extension) are currently being expanded to add 5 contact stands and 1 remote narrow body stand on the east side. Future plans are discussed on page 63.

Have a look here:
https://www.torontopearson.com/uploa...to_2037_EN.pdf

The plans for terminal 1 look quite different from the old master plan. It looks like they want to expand on the cheap.

CZAMFlyer

What are AC passengers' (this very narrow cross-section, at least) thoughts on being bussed to or from remote stands?

The reason I enquire is that YVR's airline growth has exceeded its current gate supply at peak arrival times, so many carriers have been asked to offload from or do a full turn from a position in the deicing pads west of the Intl terminal. MU and CZ have been doing this for a couple years, and this year JL, KA, UA, DL and AC have all been selected - with negotiation - to take a turn for a few weeks of remote stand ops. All airlines have been willing and cooperative players, except - and this may come as no surprise to some - for AC.

AC offered up a single token Rouge flight - on Sundays only - and has to date managed to avoid at all costs taking a turn doing the bus operations. Given that they account for almost half the total passenger seats serving YVR, one might think they'd be invested in a spirit of cooperation and in taking a leadership role.

One can only speculate on their reasoning. What do you - having come off an 11-hour flight - think? To add some specific context, note that JL routinely empties a 788 into waiting busses in about 8 minutes, which is quicker than most disembarkations at a bridge. The bus takes 3-4 minutes to arrive at the terminal, and passengers walk through a short corridor to arrive at the front of the immigration hall, beyond the waterfall.

Would you, as a frequent and often premium passenger, object or agree to such an option? Or, given that so many other top-tier airports have used busses for years, do you even care?

Bohemian1

I'm not of fan of being bussed for at least a couple of reasons.

First, it negates one of my advantages of generally flying in J - getting on/off the plane the first. Not getting on/off a bus a first and then having to wait to fill the bus with other pax. This forces me to "board" even earlier than AC's ridiculous boarding times and gives me less time to make a connection. At least that is what I have experienced at numerous other airports around the world who use buses.

Second, it's YVR - it rains at least 4 months of the year. The thought of having to lug my bags up/down stairs in the rain, cross the apron to a bus in the rain does not appeal to me one bit. And, while it doesn't happen often, I would certainly not want to think about that experience when it snows.

I get that YVR wants to save money, but I don't like this process at other airports that having been doing this for years and am not a fan of it coming to YVR. Ground-side is bad enough, I would prefer air-side doesn't go the same way.

vernonc

The YYZ bus experience that I had yesterday seemed to have had other airlines in addition to AC in T1 having to use the bus service too. So is T1 gates at capacity at particular times or is there some construction/repairs at some gates ? These are big planes not the smaller TB planes that use the 'shed'. Would hate to be doing this winter months if it is a long term plan. On the positive side the bus did drop us off at the main rotunda near the exit to baggage hall.

Jebby_ca

The YYZ Infield Terminal is back in use, but for T3 airlines. Guess T1 is out of gates at peak times as well. Didn't the original master plan have Pier G and H being built around this time / passenger volume?

moondog

I happen to prefer remote stands on arrival at large airports where the drop off is close to baggage claim. Whenever I don't qualify for the small bus, I typically wait on the plane until one of the bigger buses is close to full. My SOP on departure is to wait until the end of the boarding process. I'd much rather wait in the gate area than on the bus or plane.

CZAMFlyer

Understandable about the priority treatment being negated the moment you leave the airplane door. Of course, that already occurs whenever we disembark at a conventional bridge. I appreciate the issue of having to wait for the bus to fill before proceeding to the terminal. Able-bodied premium passengers must walk through the terminal - my point above was that remote-stand passengers actually reach the immigration hall quicker than passengers at many gates.

Weather: passengers are under cover the entire time, rain or shine. Passengers would not have to "cross the apron" in any fashion. Any carry-on bag-lugging would occur regardless, via bus or on foot.

This isn't about YVR "saving money". It's about having more airplanes than gates. YVR had to buy a fleet of new busses and hire staff to drive them. The airport has just announced spending $9.1 Billion on new infrastructure, and that's not even including the expansion of the international terminal beyond gates 62 & 64.

I think the biggest hurdle in bus operations is frequently perception rather than inconvenience. I suspect this is what's driving AC's decisions. At YVR at least, airside IS going towards busses. Ground has broken for the creation of a dozen new aircraft stands: two more at the western deicing bays and ten east of the trans border area, adjacent to the JetSet parking lot. Like a 737Max, it's gonna become more and more difficult to avoid.


* apologies if this doesn't fit precisely within the thread title. I took the liberty of expanding a YYZ-specific question into a general discussion of using busses to travel between Air Canada planes and terminal.

jazzsax

Just wait... AC will begin offering a "front of the bus" a-la-carte option on bookings. $25 for lowest fare, $10 for Flex, Free for SE.

CZAMFlyer

The first bus in line (at the YVR ops anyway) is used for premium passengers only. Sadly there is no PDB on said bus, but it does avoid mingling with the riff raff.

Further small add-on to Bohemian's post above: there are no stairs. Aviramps* are used - larger versions of the one some of you may have used when re-entering the domestic terminal after being bussed between the customs hall following AC flights from Australia/Europe/USA in the last couple weeks.

*http://www.adsadvance.co.uk/norwich-...-aviramps.html

songsc

I actually enjoy remote gate, perfect fro snapping some pictures of the bird at an angle I normally don't see.

As for premium passengers, some airports manage this very well. Take HKG, PEK for example, a separate minibus, sometimes two buses, are used for F/J passengers.

As for the additional time, it depends on the airport and specific spot. Take PEK T3 for example, sometime international flights are parked near C(domestic) gates, passengers need to take bus all the way to T3-E for immigration, then go back to T3-C for baggage. Apparently YVR does not have this issue though. Not sure about YYZ.

Bohemian1

I've seen this approach used at other airports around the world with varying degrees of compliance. Recent examples, at both BKK and FLR had a 'Priority' bus that did not just carry Priority pax but waited until full before moving. If YYZ or YVR actually have the discipline to pull this off then great. I remain to be convinced however that this will be any faster (on average) than hooking up a jet bridge and walking. Especially if the bus isn't there (like last week in CDG) and especially for connections.

Those look cool. I guess I'm not travelling to/through the right airports to have seen something like this in action. Any place (other than IAD) I've been had stairs which are a royal pain.

CZAMFlyer

Good point; although there exist priority compliance concerns at gates already. The discipline for such rests on the airlines solely. YVR does not make any such policy and the third-party contractor who actively manages the operations looks at all passengers in the same light. The notion of 'premium' is the airlines' alone.

If you dock at a gate close to the immigration hall - yes you will of course reach the kiosks faster than by bus. There are some far-flung gates in which a 'race' might well be won by the passengers who parked remotely. I've seen AC36 parked way down at gate 76, AC33 at gate 50 and AC855 frequently docks at gate 64, all of which can be a hike for some.

Yes, agreed. There are nine of them at the airport. YVR has long been a champion of universal access (ever note there are no 'disabled' washrooms in the airport? That's cuz they're ALL designed for everybody). I watched the loading of 30 members of a Japanese wheelchair sports team from bus to airplane last month. It went very smoothly - albeit a little slower than wheeling down a jet bridge walkway perhaps.

Remote stand operations at YVR are for the time being, limited to the peak midday hours of the summer months. Chances of operations in truly inclement weather are slim.

Bohemian1

Figured as much. You caught my veiled inference to AC inconsistently enforcing their own stated boarding protocol.

As always you are fount of information of what goes on behind the scenes at YVR. Thanks!

Now back to the originally scheduled topic...