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The reason for the AC pilots hesitation to sign

The reason for the AC pilots hesitation to sign

Old May 29, 03, 6:21 am
  #1  
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The reason for the AC pilots hesitation to sign

Air Canada's regional subsidiary Jazz could grow much larger than its parent under a controversial restructuring plan being discussed with the airline's pilots.

The proposed shift of aircraft to the lower-paid regional pilots has become the main stumbling block in Air Canada's efforts to reach a deal with the Air Canada Pilots Association.

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Old May 29, 03, 6:27 am
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Now people understand why I would buy Jazz?

Buzz Hargrove hinted at this as well - AC becomes high volume routes and international long distance and Jazz just about everything else.
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Old May 29, 03, 6:33 am
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The National Post article hints that matter may have to be resolved by CCAA judge.

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Old May 29, 03, 6:48 am
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I don't see the pilots ever agreeing to this through collective bargaining;it is time for the judge to strip that union of its power and let AC get on with its reorganization.The pilots have long held sway over the compnay and are way too militant and too overpaid for what they do.
The judge will do all stakeholders a favour if he puts them out of business.

[This message has been edited by parnel (edited 05-29-2003).]
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Old May 29, 03, 6:48 am
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He will cut them 20% and have a nice day.
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Old May 29, 03, 6:50 am
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dupe

[This message has been edited by parnel (edited 05-29-2003).]
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Old May 29, 03, 9:28 am
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So when did people start to believe the newspapers were correct?

The papers are focusing on one part of the agreement, but I am sure there are many other factors that are being discussed.
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Old May 29, 03, 10:45 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by parnel:
I don't see the pilots ever agreeing to this through collective bargaining;it is time for the judge to strip that union of its power and let AC get on with its reorganization.The pilots have long held sway over the compnay and are way too militant and too overpaid for what they do.
The judge will do all stakeholders a favour if he puts them out of business.

[This message has been edited by parnel (edited 05-29-2003).]
</font>
Is anyone surprised that it's ACPA that threatens the whole deal? They're notorious for putting their interests before the company and the rest of the employees. As I said before, it would be poetic justice to see CALPA win one over ACPA.

CUPE obviously faced the same issues if flights are transferred to Jazz, but were able to see the writing on the wall.

Scope clauses are archaic, and the judge shouldn't think twice before tossing it out. Let's hope he has the guts.

How come nobody is questioning one thing in this scenario: where is Zip?
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Old May 29, 03, 11:55 am
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LeSabre74 are you an Air Canada employee or a pilot?

The pilots have the most to loose and are being asked to give up the most. The money is only PART of the problem.

It is too bad that aviation is the only industry where people eat their young.

[This message has been edited by back seat (edited 05-29-2003).]
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Old May 29, 03, 12:10 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by back seat:
It is too bad that aviation is the only industry where people eat their young.</font>
Okay, I admit to being metaphorically challenged, but what does that one mean??
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Old May 29, 03, 12:30 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by back seat:
LeSabre74 are you an Air Canada employee or a pilot?

The pilots have the most to loose and are being asked to give up the most. The money is only PART of the problem.

It is too bad that aviation is the only industry where people eat their young.

[This message has been edited by back seat (edited 05-29-2003).]
</font>
Nope, and nope

I agree, money is the least of their problems. Yes, they are being asked to give up the largest percentage, but they're also paid the most.

My biggest issue is that they put their own union interests ahead of the company once again, and this one of the big reasons why AC is where it is today.

The thing I find most interesting about this whole Jazz scenario is that it seems to be an actual alternative to the Westjet model. Using RJ's to serve many markets instead of 737's. I'm very curious to see where Zip fits in all this.

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Old May 29, 03, 12:32 pm
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After Burner:

In my first job in aviation (as a pilot) I was paid a small livable salary, in my second job, I was paid less to fly a bigger airplane, my next job I was not paid at all - why because my "colleagues" were willing to work for less and less. I got out of commercial flying in 1983 because of this and haven't missed it at all.

Air Canada pilots, in my opinion, get a fair wage for the knowledge / training and what they do ( command a multi million dollare airplane with 100+ people on it). Most have University degrees and have paid upwards of $35,000 for training (Private, Commercial, Multi, IFR, licenses etc). Why shouldn't they command 6 figure incomes?

Right now, there are pilots who want to fly professionally still for free, or in the case of JetsGo are willing to post a personal training bond of $30,000. WestJet pilots who got there at the beginning of the company have done extremely well with stock options, but the guys who are hired today won't have the same ability with the stock market.

Where else in business (excluding Coop positions) are people willing to PAY for the right to work or accept less and less wages when they have more experience? Why are Jazz pilot's willing to "bid" for the right to fly the same airplanes for less money?

It seems this is the ONLY profession in the world where your passion for your job puts in you in a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage.
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Old May 29, 03, 3:55 pm
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And the plot thickens;

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Old May 29, 03, 3:58 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by back seat:
Right now, there are pilots who want to fly professionally still for free, or in the case of JetsGo are willing to post a personal training bond of $30,000.</font>
What is your definition of "free"? "Free" as in no wages/salary/compensation or "free" as in below the market value?



[This message has been edited by B767 (edited 05-29-2003).]
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Old May 29, 03, 4:19 pm
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The pilots are 25% of the labour costs at Air Canada, folks - which means the other 19 out of 20 employees get to divide up the rest.

You do the math.
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