Stranger

canadiancow

Time to final destination counts if there's an eligible delay, but an AC YYZ-BOS delay is not eligible.

Stranger

canadiancow

AC YYZ-BOS arrival time only matters if the delay was caused by an ex-EU flight. But as soon as AC (a non-EU airline) completed the ex-EU flight on time, their obligations under EC 261 ended.

"passengers who missed a connection within the EU, or outside the EU with a flight coming from an airport situated in the territory of a Member State"

No connection was missed, because the first flight was on time.

hughw

According to this website, it doesn't matter that the delay at the final destination was not caused by delay in the arrival of an ex-EU flight. Even if the delay was entirely outside the purview of the original BOD-YUL flight and solely regarding the YUL-BOS flight, it sounds like it's subject to EU 261.
https://www.euclaim.co.uk/blog/new-c...side-of-the-eu

see this article https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a8388201.html

and here's the ruling, https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/...cp180077en.pdf

hughw

Based on the above, it looks like we're due compensation unless AC can claim extraordinary circumstances for the cancelled and delayed flights..going back to my original post, can anyone answer these questions?

2. We don't know for sure the cause of the cancellation of 7554 and delay of 2076. We suspect 7554 was cancelled due to an extremely light load but don't know for sure. We also assume that 2076 was delayed because of catering and mechanical issues. How can we determine the "official" cause of the cancellation and delay and obtain flight details like shown above?

3. Assuming there are grounds for compensation, can I submit a claim for all the parties? or would they have to claim individually.

4. If I submit claim, can I do it for all four PNR's or do I need to submit separate claims.

5. Where and how should the claim be sent? Mail? email?

6. Is there a specific form to file claim, or just an explanation?

ChrisA330

You can't. Experflyer descriptions for delays are only available within 24 hours after arrival. You need to just submit a claim, and ask for proof of delay if needed.

Jagboi

The onus is on the airline to prove the delay was extraordinary, not on the passenger to prove it isn't. You should have a reasonable idea if it's a weather delay, but otherwise submit a claim.

Delay means to your final ticketed destination on the ticket, the routing and number of stops doesn't matter.

hughw

Well, I received what I would consider an unresponsive response to the claims that I filed on line using the form provided. The response offered a 15% discount on a future flight and claimed that the delay was caused by Canadian airspace being closed to 737 MAX aircraft and that has disrupted the schedule, and as such the flight was operated by AC Rouge. Problem is that the flight they're speaking of which was originally on a 737MAX BOD-YUL was actually on time to YUL.... it was the connecting flights that were cancelled and delayed impacting arrival at the final destination of BOS. Any suggestions on how to pursue this further? email to customrelations? letter to corporate offices?

StuMcIlwain

You can reply back to Customer Solutions and explain why you think their offer is inadequate. But if they continue to refuse to provide EU compensation, there's not much you can do short of taking them to court in Europe. It's a European law, so it has to be enforced in Europe. There are companies advertising on-line that will take them to court (or threaten to) for you if they think you have a strong enough case. They charge ~25% of the claim.

hughw

I received an additional response denying the claim (see below) saying that the delay was due to the AC connecting flight YUL-BOS and not the original flight from the EU community....true.
.this is in direct contradiction to EU Court of Justice rulings (Wegener et al) that clearly state the opposite per quote from the court below...Before turning to a third party, is there any path within AC to escalate the claim? letter to the CEO?

pewpew

Reply to them with that court decision and ask them to explain how EU261 doesn't apply.

hughw

I did, very politely....and added links to the court decisions and quotes from the decisions....they essentially blew me off with this curt response with zero further explanation beyond their original denial which said it was because the delay involved a connecting flight departing Canada and not the EU....and that is precisely what the court decisions addressed saying explicitly that if the flights were ticketed together it was treated as a single flight from the EU

"We regret we did not conclude this matter to your satisfaction. In our previous email, we provided our explanations. Continuing to exchange emails will not change our position. Respectfully, we consider this matter closed."

hughw

This may be a bridge to far for some of us, but I've found forms online where you can take a complaint directly to the national authorities from where the flight originated if you're not satisfied with the airline's response.

Here's the general English complaint form...https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...nt_form_en.pdf

Here's the addresses for all the national authorities... https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...ent_bodies.pdf

And in my case, leaving from France, here's the form in French from the French authorities. you need to download the PDF by clicking the appropriate place on the top of the form
https://www.formulaires.modernisatio...numCerfa=13675

hughw

Earlier posts detail my ill-fated attempts to receive compensation for six family members who were delayed over 4 hours on their return trip to Boston from Bordeaux connecting in Montreal. While the BOD-YUL flight was on time, the YUL-BOS segment was subject to the long delay. AC turned down my request curtly and indicated that since that flight was from a non-europeans community nation to another non-community nation that it wasn't subject to EU261.

I decided to make one last attempt and wrote an email directly to Twyla Robinson, General Manager, Customer Relations & Executive Centre. I politely pointed out that I believed the prior denials of compensation were ill-informed and that the entire flight should be viewed as a single flight under the rulings of the European Court of Justice in the Wegener and the České/Etihad cases. I included pdf's of both those rulings in my email. At the end of my email, I said "In light of what seems to be the clear applicability of EU/EC 261, I would appreciate your review of our claim. We are hopeful that Air Canada will do what is right and and responsible. Failing a satisfactory response, it seems that we're left with little choice but to engage a third party to pursue the claim in the appropriate EU court and to file a report with DGAC Air Transport Directorate in Paris."

A week later, I received an email from a customer relations manager at AC stating "In this instance, we remain of the opinion that the compensation requested under EC Regulations does not apply. However, in the interest of concluding this amicably, on a goodwill basis, we will provide the compensation of 600 EUR per person. Converted to US Dollars at the current rate of exchange, the amount each person will receive is $662 USD. The compensation will be paid by bank draft (cheque). "

Naturally, I'm gratified that AC stepped up and did the right thing. I still don't know, and it doesn't really matter at this point, was if the earlier denial was due to an ill-informed agent that thought the EX-YUL flight didn't count, or if it was AC policy to initially refuse in the hope that the claimant would go away, Obviously, by stating this was a "goodwill" gesture instead of compliance with EU261, they want to not set precedent for future claims. We're satisfied that the higher-ups at AC took the claim seriously and examined it on the merits.....and my family members (four who are college students) are delighted to each receive a $662.00 USD check which arrived yesterday, two weeks after the notification from AC.