hkskyline

Yet none of those countries that acknowledge Beijing as being the only "one China" acknowledge Taipei's government being legitimate either.

In recent deportation cases involving Taiwanese passport holders on phone scams targeting Chinese victims, some countries deported them back to Beijing as they don't recognize Taiwan. So in terms of foreign policy, the distinction is not always as clear-cut. I believe the WHO has to go through Beijing if they want to send a message to Taiwan.

Customs arrangements and the current different visa regime is not equivalent to political independence. Hong Kong runs its own passport regime and separate visa system than China, but that doesn't mean Hong Kong is independent from China. In fact, most people from the West can enter visa-free to Hong Kong but not to the mainland.

All this twisting of the current political circumstances does not change the fact that Canada doesn't recognize Taiwan as a legitimate country. So asking Taiwan to be listed as part of China is clearly in-line with Canada's foreign policy, just as it would be in-line with Canada's foreign policy if Ottawa asks other countries' companies to list Quebec as part of Canada regardless if the Bloc gets elected to power in Quebec.

yscleo

No it's not in-line with Canada's foreign policy. As had been mentioned many times, Canada "takes note" of China's claim of sovereignty over Taiwan. It's a polite way of saying NO we don't agree with your claim.

Just because Beijing threatens militarily doesn't mean Taiwan is not independent from PRChina. Otherwise by your logic just because Beijing threatens country X would mean country X is part of PRChina?!?


Again Canada does not recognize or agree with China's territorial claims. Quebec is part of Canada, using Canadian currency, with Canadian military, has its MPs represented in Canada's Parliament, etc.

Yes Taiwan had a chance to be recognized as an independent Taiwan apart from PRChina, but the dictator Chiang regime refused that, leading Taiwan into diplomatic isolation. But Taiwan has evolved to have its own democratically elected president and democratically elected legislators. PRChina does not have democratic representatives and has not exercised jurisdiction over Taiwan for a single day. Taiwan and China have two different jurisdictions.

eigenvector

We've devolved into the primary debate of Taiwan's status which isn't really what is at issue here.

The question is what position should airlines, specifically Air Canada, take when pressured or threatened by the PRC regarding their recognition of Taiwan.

China (PRC) is not a country operating under Western notions of administrative fairness. Any foreign company operating there is doing it solely at the whim of the government, which is accountable to no one. Merely criticizing China in public could lead to immediate retaliation by Beijing against AC's operations in China. AC has absolutely no leverage with which to go head-to-head with Beijing unless they have the backing of the Canadian government to start an all-out aviation war with China - i.e. if China revokes or curtails AC's Chinese routes, Ottawa retaliates by revoking the right of Chinese state-owned or controlled carriers (including, let us not forget, Cathay Pacific) to service Canada. One might argue that the economic harm to China's multitude of state-owned carriers from the loss of their Canadian routes would be larger than the harm to AC from the loss of its relatively few Chinese routes. The primary beneficiaries of such a spat would obviously be US carriers who would be laughing all the way to the bank. Nonetheless, this kind of confrontation would require AC and the Canadian government to work in tandem and since AC is not a state-controlled carrier (despite protestations to the contrary by some members of this forum), it's hard to see that happening. Especially when the current Canadian government has a very solicitous attitude toward China and is actively exploring a free-trade agreement.

On the other hand, we should consider what might happen if China's attitude toward Taiwan becomes even more strident in the future. All airlines (even Chinese ones) implicitly recognize Taiwan's sovereignty by accepting Taiwanese passports. What happens if 10 years from now, China pressures foreign airlines that fly there to stop accepting Taiwanese passengers or to stop flying to Taipei? Where do we draw the line of unacceptable interference?

Stranger

Factually incorrect. These countries recognize not that Beijing is the only "one China. But merely that it is China's view that "there is but one China."

A very different statement.

Also remember that it still is US law that the US are obliged to defend Taiwan if China were to invade them.

Actually, China does not require visitors on Taiwanese passports to have a visa. Also based upon the fiction that they are Chinese...

eigenvector

But surely when a Taiwanese national departs China for a 3rd country, their nationality is recorded in APIS as 'Taiwanese' - otherwise it would be quite confusing for the 3rd country.

AC*SE

Out of 191 countries that have to make a choice of which China to recognize, 19 have opted to recognize the regime in Taipei. The biggest ones are Guatemala and Honduras. The heaviest hitter is--wait for it--the Holy See.

Meanwhile every member of the OECD, every member of the G7 and G20 recognizes the PRC and accepts that the price of recognizing the PRC is downgrading their presence in Taipei to trade or cultural offices. When Canada negotiates air services agreement with China, Canada is hardly in a position to take negotiating positions that deviate from the one-China policy that is part and parcel of recognizing the PRC.

Have all of the outraged posters forgotten how this worked in the 90's? Look up British Asia Airways, Japan Asia Airways, Australia Asia Airways, Swissair Asia, KLM Asia Airways and Air Japan. Look up why China Airlines created Mandarin Airlines. China has been flexing its muscles about service to and from Taiwan for decades.

Air Canada is one of only a handful of carriers that serve both China and Taiwan and they're navigating tricky waters.

m.y

Countries agree with the One-China policy enough by not having official relations with Taiwan, while maintaining unofficial ties which China is ok with.
For Canada, there are a few places where the government have stated their position on the issue

Under Canada’s One China policy, Canada does not recognize Taiwan as a sovereign state and does not maintain official, government-to-government relations with Taipei.
http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca...iwan-FS-en.pdf

Canada continues to support Taiwan's full participation in international organizations that do not require statehood as a prerequisite for membership, and meaningful participation in those that do when a practical imperative exists.
Canada and Taiwan relations

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has reaffirmed Canada's long-standing position that Taiwan is part of China.

In an interview with Sing Tao newspaper this week, Mr. Harper said his government would continue to adopt a "one-China" policy, despite moves by some Conservatives in the past to recognize the island as independent from China.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle4111920/

The U.S is certainly NOT obligated to help Taiwan if China invades, according to the Taiwan Relations Act

1. The President is directed to inform the Congress promptly of any threat to the security or the social or economic system of the people on Taiwan and any danger to the interests of the United States arising therefrom. The President and the Congress shall determine, in accordance with constitutional processes, appropriate action by the United States in response to any such danger.

What constitutes appropriate action is a grey area which gives U.S flexibility to either intervene or not.

Taiwan also does not issue visas to Chinese visitors, so what?

It is quite a stretch to argue that somehow AC's decision is against Canadian government policy when the Canadian Government policy has been not recognizing Taiwan as a sovereign country.

You can certain argue that the decision does not reflect Taiwan's de-facto status and is impractical for travelers who are used to seeing "Taipei, Taiwan".

Air Canada has 5 flights a day to Mainland China, 2 to HK vs 1 to Taipei and is actively seeking JV with Air China. If AC has to chose between being boycotted by Chinese or Taiwanese travelers, it is clear which one they will chose.

hkskyline

The Canadian government is quite clear in who they recognize and not, and who is the legal government over whom. The link posted above can't be more direct on what "One China" means, and leaves very little grey area interpretation.

Then the next question is whether China has a legitimate request to enforce a correct interpretation of its national boundaries. Actually, Emirates was the first airline that got entangled in this last year : Emirates says telling cabin crew not to wear Taiwan flag pins per China?s request was an ?error? | South China Morning Post

bocastephen

China has a legitimate request to enforce a correct interpretation of its national boundaries - except those boundaries do not include Taiwan. Period. Full stop. Any claim to the contrary is nonsense. Taiwan is independent. It's just a fact and it's much easier to discuss what Air Canada should be doing by simply accepting this fact and not constantly claiming what is a fact is not.

If the US govt can tell China to buzz off, and its flag carriers can do the same, then Air Canada should be able to ignore these obnoxious and tiresome demands from a fascist dictator bent on revisionist history.

hkskyline

Then you didn't read the government of Canada's stance on what "One China" means. That's fine if you don't want to read that reality. That's what the current Taipei administration is doing, hoping people won't know the truth and think they are not even Chinese.

Here's a primer on the One China Policy : https://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/10/a...ner/index.html

bocastephen

I understand what the one china policy is, and what it says, but it's not a policy, it's an opinion. Taiwanese people are Taiwanese, not Chinese. You can keep repeating this nonsense over and over, but you will never, ever, change my opinion or the fact that Taiwan is an independent sovereign nation.

hkskyline

That's funny how you think the One China Policy is not a policy but an opinion. Let's see what the US State Department has to say : https://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35855.htm

The 1979 U.S.-P.R.C. Joint Communique switched diplomatic recognition from Taipei to Beijing. In the Joint Communique, the United States recognized the Government of the People's Republic of China as the sole legal government of China, acknowledging the Chinese position that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China. The Joint Communique also stated that the people of the United States will maintain cultural, commercial, and other unofficial relations with the people of Taiwan.

The United States does not support Taiwan independence.

That does not look like some casual "opinion".

Good luck thinking Taiwanese are not Chinese when they speak Mandarin Chinese, write in Traditional Chinese, celebrate the same Chinese festivals, claim the father of the country is Chinese revolutionary, Sun Yat-sen, and call themselves the Republic of China.

KenHamer

So Americans are English?

In any case it's clear that corporate executives can be bought as easily as politicians.

Stranger

Actually, cnn is incorrect when writing:

Admittedly Chinese propaganda has been quite successful of selling the world their interpretation of the communique.

But repeating myself, the communique says something pointedly different:

In other words, the US only takes note that such is the view of China. Which does not by any means imply an agreement.

KDS777

Just another on the long list of reasons that I will never fly on AC by my own choice.