Meltdown at Toronto last night (19Apr18) - looking for compensation
Apr 20, 18, 12:29 pm
#16
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: FOTSG Tangerine Ex E35k (AC)
Posts: 5,610
Originally Posted by 1P
I have flown Air Canada a few times, with OK experiences, but I read a lot about Air Canada's terrible customer service. Almost every week it seems some disaster strikes.This is the first time that people known to me have experienced it for themselves. Is anyone from AC reading this?
AC are generally great (ignoring call center agents / FAs / GAs / anyone whom works at that airport who don't know their own rules and their IT) until something goes wrong.
Apr 20, 18, 12:31 pm
#17
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: LHR/YVR/YYF
Programs: AS MVP/AC75K/AM Gold/UA*S/SPG-Marriott Lifetime Titanium/Accor-FPC Gold/HHDiamond/Hyatt Exp
Posts: 5,029
I see the AC apologists are out in force today. 
AC has ongoing challenges when issues like the above arise. Cancellations happen, and in this case due to a mechanical issue. When the flight is called and AC Operations is aware its returning to the gate, can they not locate one competent staff member to member the pax and advise them of next steps or have flights rebooked for the next available flight? On my last YYZ mechanical cancelllation, we were boarded for only 10 mins and when we were deplaning the exact same gate agents just ignored all of us and told us to look at the monitors for the new aircraft gate.
AC has ongoing challenges when issues like the above arise. Cancellations happen, and in this case due to a mechanical issue. When the flight is called and AC Operations is aware its returning to the gate, can they not locate one competent staff member to member the pax and advise them of next steps or have flights rebooked for the next available flight? On my last YYZ mechanical cancelllation, we were boarded for only 10 mins and when we were deplaning the exact same gate agents just ignored all of us and told us to look at the monitors for the new aircraft gate.
Apr 20, 18, 12:35 pm
#18
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
Originally Posted by 1P
I had assumed that being delayed for 12 hours for a mechanical might merit something more than a food voucher that you cannot easily spend and 2-3 hours in a crappy hotel. Apparently the crew were very keen to get the passengers off the plane so that they would not run into the breaching of the maximum time you can be waiting on an aircraft..... The penalties would really have kicked in then.
If Air Canada wants to learn any lessons from this, they would be well advised to have staff wait, after the last planes of the night have left their gates, until those planes have actually taken off before leaving their posts. Returning to a completely deserted terminal where none of the pax knows where to go or what to do next is simply appalling customer service. Not only had nearly all the AC staff gone home, there were apparently no supervisors present, either.
A passenger on another flight from Toronto last night ran into a different sort of problem. It seems that when you have checked in at Toronto you then have to wait while your luggage is screened. Once your name comes up on the board, you are clear to go through security. This guy's name never came up. Two hours in, the staff were still saying "Oh, it will come up in a moment!"..... The result was that he missed his flight, which was connecting to an international flight to Germany where he was due to speak at a conference. Since he was only going to be in Germany for two days, this effectively constituted a trip in vain.
I have flown Air Canada a few times, with OK experiences, but I read a lot about Air Canada's terrible customer service. Almost every week it seems some disaster strikes.This is the first time that people known to me have experienced it for themselves. Is anyone from AC reading this?
If Air Canada wants to learn any lessons from this, they would be well advised to have staff wait, after the last planes of the night have left their gates, until those planes have actually taken off before leaving their posts. Returning to a completely deserted terminal where none of the pax knows where to go or what to do next is simply appalling customer service. Not only had nearly all the AC staff gone home, there were apparently no supervisors present, either.
A passenger on another flight from Toronto last night ran into a different sort of problem. It seems that when you have checked in at Toronto you then have to wait while your luggage is screened. Once your name comes up on the board, you are clear to go through security. This guy's name never came up. Two hours in, the staff were still saying "Oh, it will come up in a moment!"..... The result was that he missed his flight, which was connecting to an international flight to Germany where he was due to speak at a conference. Since he was only going to be in Germany for two days, this effectively constituted a trip in vain.
I have flown Air Canada a few times, with OK experiences, but I read a lot about Air Canada's terrible customer service. Almost every week it seems some disaster strikes.This is the first time that people known to me have experienced it for themselves. Is anyone from AC reading this?
It was weird, walked over to the AC agent in the wait area. He said, give it a minute. A few minutes later he came over to me said "Mr. xxx", I said, "yes." and then "Looks like one of the two bags you check in in YVR did not make it onto the aircraft in YVR. One did." He pulled up the photo of the one that did.
He then explained that he would need to walk me through US customs. But before that he needed a printout. Like most things from big enterprise software not correctly designed, (not pointing fingers at AC), he printed out a bunch of pages, tossed most in the recycling bin and extracted the two-three pages he needed to hand in to US customs.
He walked me over to US customs, explained to the agent that only one bag made it and that he would stand back as I was processed. The customs guy handed me back the papers and cleared me.
The AC agent, then said to the customs guy, "but you need those paper, we received a memo stating that". The customs guy said, "I don't know what I am suppose to do this paper work. I guess I could take it. Maybe I need to call and ask for a supervisor" By that point he was done with me, I happily entered the US. Customs and AC continued to discuss what to do with the printout that are very important but no one wants.
Arrived in Baltamore and the AC people there don't know how to handle a lost baggage claim. The AC guy at baggage claim said that I flagged down said, "I just unload the truck, you need to go up to check-in". At check-in they needed to call a superior, who walked me over to the hidden room where the AC people hand out in while she hunted for a form to fill out.
YYZ is far more organised than the outstations. Even at 1:00 in the morning.
Apr 20, 18, 2:21 pm
#19
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: toronto
Posts: 884
I must've been part of this meltdown.
Was on the 7366 DTW to YYZ flight....AC cancelled the 7365, so my 7366 was also cancelled, and they re-booked me for 8am Friday morning.
This was at 6pm, told the agent just cancel my ticket, I'll get a rental and drive home.
Was on the 7366 DTW to YYZ flight....AC cancelled the 7365, so my 7366 was also cancelled, and they re-booked me for 8am Friday morning.
This was at 6pm, told the agent just cancel my ticket, I'll get a rental and drive home.
Apr 20, 18, 4:20 pm
#20
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: YYZ
Posts: 63
Just going to mention that for any of you looking for some light at the end of the tunnel regarding CLE flights, I've noticed a lot more of them recently being operated by Jazz Q400s. Whether that's good news or not I'll leave up to you to decide 
A RW33 or 15 operation will always result in delays because the airport's normal volume is designed for the 3 East/West parallels. On 33's like last night there is one departure and one arrival runway (with a few offloads from arrival to departure RW every hour - usually heavies) so the landing rate takes a massive hit and aircraft have to be delayed on the ground and the whole thing starts to back up and things go wonky very quickly.
A RW33 or 15 operation will always result in delays because the airport's normal volume is designed for the 3 East/West parallels. On 33's like last night there is one departure and one arrival runway (with a few offloads from arrival to departure RW every hour - usually heavies) so the landing rate takes a massive hit and aircraft have to be delayed on the ground and the whole thing starts to back up and things go wonky very quickly.
Apr 20, 18, 4:59 pm
#21
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
An option for passengers trapped in this vortex of 'where do I go now' in the wee hours of the morning: find and consult an airport authority employee. There are duty officers inside the terminals 24/7, and one of the main parts of their job is to expedite the flow of people to and through the correct channels, particularly when things go sideways. These duty officers know where you need to go, who to talk to re lost baggage and where they reside, the operating hours of various customs/screening/restaurants/whatever, and which painted line on the floor you need to follow. They will not rebook your flight nor find your bags nor provide you with any vouchers. But they will simplify your process of doing so. It's in their best interest to keep you and your planemates from milling about aimlessly.
AC is hardly alone when it comes to IROPS meltdowns, and it seems to me to be a predictable and straightforward series of problems for airlines to fix. It just takes a bit of money and a dose of willpower. But when the airlines fail you, ask for the airport's terminal duty officer(s). They walk among you. They have the power and the contacts to provide you with all the info you need. And they're never wrong.
AC is hardly alone when it comes to IROPS meltdowns, and it seems to me to be a predictable and straightforward series of problems for airlines to fix. It just takes a bit of money and a dose of willpower. But when the airlines fail you, ask for the airport's terminal duty officer(s). They walk among you. They have the power and the contacts to provide you with all the info you need. And they're never wrong.
Apr 20, 18, 6:10 pm
#22
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,682
Normal IROPS experience with airlines in North America.
WX like Mrs GHT had - you wait for 2 hours at night to be rebooked and get a toiletry bag......
MX at night. Same stuff you get a meal voucher for use either at airport or on board AC cafe. If overnight is required they will put you in a hotel.
Bags is also another gong show at North American airports esp during wee hours in the AM
I get it..... Gonna stay factual about it.....worst I had was a 6 hr delay in SFO on the red eye back to YYZ. Luckily UA Lounge staff was nice enough to give me a large plastic bag to raid their snacks.
WX like Mrs GHT had - you wait for 2 hours at night to be rebooked and get a toiletry bag......
MX at night. Same stuff you get a meal voucher for use either at airport or on board AC cafe. If overnight is required they will put you in a hotel.
Bags is also another gong show at North American airports esp during wee hours in the AM
I get it..... Gonna stay factual about it.....worst I had was a 6 hr delay in SFO on the red eye back to YYZ. Luckily UA Lounge staff was nice enough to give me a large plastic bag to raid their snacks.
Apr 21, 18, 6:50 am
#24
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AC MM E50 , Former SPG, now Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 5,924
Originally Posted by expert7700
A few random thoughts....
-too bad you saved AC $100 or so by not presenting the voucher to the hotell.
-too bad you saved AC $100 or so by not presenting the voucher to the hotell.
Apr 21, 18, 7:33 am
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: LAX and LHR. UA lifetime Gold 1.9MM 1K , DL Gold Medallion, HHonors Gold, Marriott Gold, Avis President's Club
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by CZAMFlyer
An option for passengers trapped in this vortex of 'where do I go now' in the wee hours of the morning: find and consult an airport authority employee. There are duty officers inside the terminals 24/7, and one of the main parts of their job is to expedite the flow of people to and through the correct channels, particularly when things go sideways. These duty officers know where you need to go, who to talk to re lost baggage and where they reside, the operating hours of various customs/screening/restaurants/whatever, and which painted line on the floor you need to follow. They will not rebook your flight nor find your bags nor provide you with any vouchers. But they will simplify your process of doing so. It's in their best interest to keep you and your planemates from milling about aimlessly.
AC is hardly alone when it comes to IROPS meltdowns, and it seems to me to be a predictable and straightforward series of problems for airlines to fix. It just takes a bit of money and a dose of willpower. But when the airlines fail you, ask for the airport's terminal duty officer(s). They walk among you. They have the power and the contacts to provide you with all the info you need. And they're never wrong.
AC is hardly alone when it comes to IROPS meltdowns, and it seems to me to be a predictable and straightforward series of problems for airlines to fix. It just takes a bit of money and a dose of willpower. But when the airlines fail you, ask for the airport's terminal duty officer(s). They walk among you. They have the power and the contacts to provide you with all the info you need. And they're never wrong.
Apr 21, 18, 9:11 am
#26
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
Originally Posted by 1P
That's all very well, but read my post again. The terminal was deserted. No one to be seen, and certainly no airport authority employees
Originally Posted by 1P
The woman at customs control was also unpleasant and unhelpful, making one old lady cry
Originally Posted by 1P
I reiterate: people need to stay on duty until aircraft have actually taken off, not vanish as soon as they have left the gate.
Apr 21, 18, 11:38 am
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: LAX and LHR. UA lifetime Gold 1.9MM 1K , DL Gold Medallion, HHonors Gold, Marriott Gold, Avis President's Club
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by CZAMFlyer
Except for: "There are duty officers inside the terminals 24/7". The good folks running YYZ don't all go home and leave the place unsupervised. There were likely several dozen airport authority employees on duty, behind the scenes and in full view. We often don't see what we're not explicitly looking for.
......
Airline customer service employees should remain; I agree. But if they don't, I offered a viable alternate source of assistance. My post was to inform of that option to seek in a future event, not to remind anybody of an opportunity missed. I'll leave it to your friend to decide if he/she would prefer to consider that option, or insist it wasn't available.
......
Airline customer service employees should remain; I agree. But if they don't, I offered a viable alternate source of assistance. My post was to inform of that option to seek in a future event, not to remind anybody of an opportunity missed. I'll leave it to your friend to decide if he/she would prefer to consider that option, or insist it wasn't available.
Apr 21, 18, 4:34 pm
#29
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: yyz/ord
Programs: AC E50 UA1k 2MM AA EXP Royal Ambassador SPG Platinum
Posts: 1,516
yes you are entitled to compensation, http://airpassengerrights.ca/en/about/team
these people will actually help you out..
these people will actually help you out..
Apr 21, 18, 4:50 pm
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,014
Originally Posted by flybit
yes you are entitled to compensation, http://airpassengerrights.ca/en/about/team
these people will actually help you out..
these people will actually help you out..
As to "these people," they are primarily in the business of promoting themselves. And their oversized ego.
