FlyerTalk Forums - So, what does it mean to be "protected"? (Long-ish post)

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SFO-SAN are all jets on UA at this point.

My guess would be going via ORD would get him into SAN earlier than YYZ-SFO-SAN?

Thanks for that CIC update, Empress. For some reason, I feel better thinking that I may not have been lied to! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

As for any aversion to SFO, I have none in general. I have plans to go there someday, but on this trip, it was only a schedule thing.

Quote:

Originally posted by whyyzman:
I have flown SFO-SAN and it was in a 19 seater plane. Maybe that is the aversion.

SFO-SAN flights are all mainline, 737 or larger. I don't ever remember 19 seaters on this route.

Couple of things...
There is now a train at SFO (outside security) to get you from AC T1 to UA T3.

SFO-SAN is all mainline aircraft, but even if you had to take an express plane it would be no less than a 30 seater. All in CA are EMB or CRJ aircraft.

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted:
...There is now a train at SFO (outside security) to get you from AC T1 to UA T3..

That was one thing about transfering in SFO. Not enough airside transfer.

re: calling AC res for info on Aeroplan tkts..
the above is a good example of calling the wrong department.. just because we want to call res for the info, a res agent, helpful though s/he may be, is not the person to contact about FT tickets; since AC joined the rest of the world in separating out the revenue callers from FT callers, it has become infinitely easier and smoother to get the dope about such travel from the dedicated department.
As for the CIC quoted above, note the precursor refers to misconnects to another airline; there is no such misconnect in the original booking. Aeroplan's limitations on schedule changes equal my experience with DL, and I have to confess I find them quite logical given the nature of air travel.

Empress, which CIC were you getting the info about Aeroplan PNRS with OAL? I would appreciate if you could post which CIC as I will try to get a print out for my reference. I do have a copy of CIC*77 but it makes no reference to redemption class, just that it should be re-booked with a Star Carrier.

Two years ago, when AC had canceled my Aeroplan booking they said as long as they was a Star Carrier, they would get me there. I had asked if it had to be in redemption class and they were very specific that it did not have to be since they would be dealing with a star carrier....mind you this was two years ago. And in my case, since they could not find a Star Carrier, they left me high and dry.

Cheers

Quote:

quote:
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Originally posted by pdjcrawford:
In the thread that BB references, sing-along makes the following statement: "You basically can choose any airline if what AC gives you does not work out. As far as your aeroplan reward, it has to be a star carrier but the carrier does not have to have inventory available in a reward class." (italics mine)
So, what you're saying is that after all of my fun yesterday, Aeroplan agents and supervisors were, in fact, wrong in the applications of their own rules?

Really??

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That's not true about any Star Allliance carriers without the need of award class available. I posted this from the CIC and noted the part about booking in redemption class only.
AEROPLAN PNRS WITH OAL SEGMENTS
* NOTE: Codeshares are not eligible for Aerpolan protection

If customer now misconnects to OAL redemption flight:

- Rebook a suitable AC flight. If W/D not available book revenue space.

OR

- If no suitable AC flight exists, request an alternate OAL flight * IN REDEMPTION CLASS ONLY * (see CIC*101/YY/BOOKING)

OR

- If no suitable AC or OAL flight exists, you may pro the customer from origin straight through to destination all on AC. If W/D not available book revenue space.
* THIS OPTION IS ONLY AVAILABLE IF SKCH IS BY AC *

Empress:

I am somewhat confused about what you are saying - Let me state my understanding of your post.

If I have a Aeroplan D class seat on a AC flight that is cancelled, I can request any alternate AC routing from the original origin city to the destination city - that seat would come from D class, if available - if not, I can ask from J or C class inventory.

If I have to use UA, then I can only request seats from its domestic first class award inventory - if no inventory seats are available, then I can not ask for revenue seats.

What CIC reference numbers should I quote, when I am talking to the AE agents, about such rules - in each of these scenarios - I became confused about which reference number regulation is associated with which of your statements?

Thanks.

FlyerGoldII

[This message has been edited by FlyerGoldII (edited 05-17-2003).]

Quote:

Originally posted by sing-along:
...Two years ago,

With Air Canada in CCAA some of the rules have been changed by "The Monitor" [ie. Ernst and Young]. I don't know if this is one example, but I have heard that in oversale situations the airport people can no longer "protect" passengers on other airlines, but MUST keep the passenger either on AC or a Star partner. There could be a variation of that working here.

Quote:

Originally posted by californiadreamin':
re: calling AC res for info on Aeroplan tkts..
the above is a good example of calling the wrong department.. just because we want to call res for the info, a res agent, helpful though s/he may be, is not the person to contact about FT tickets; since AC joined the rest of the world in separating out the revenue callers from FT callers, it has become infinitely easier and smoother to get the dope about such travel from the dedicated department.

Don't chastise the original poster for calling AC res for instructions. They are supposed to know the rules on SC and can protect passengers. So 11 posts and stil nothing constructive from you.

Quote:

Originally posted by sing-along:
Empress, which CIC were you getting the info about Aeroplan PNRS with OAL? I would appreciate if you could post which CIC as I will try to get a print out for my reference. I do have a copy of CIC*77 but it makes no reference to redemption class, just that it should be re-booked with a Star Carrier.

sing-along, that came from CIC*77 as well. There are many pages within Chapter 77, so I doubt that the agent printed you the whole thing. It now clearly states 'In Redemption Class Only' whenever it refers to protection on OAL flights. AC can book you in revenue class because they can queue to their own yield management to convert. Unless AC has called the OAL airline to make sure it was ok to book revenue space, they can't just book up the whole plane with Aeroplan bookings just to protect their customers. Just like how AC won't be impressed if UA comes along and book up the whole AC J cabin just to protect their reward J pax.

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyerGoldII:
If I have a Aeroplan D class seat on a AC flight that is cancelled, I can request any alternate AC routing from the original origin city to the destination city - that seat would come from D class, if available - if not, I can ask from J or C class inventory.

That is correct. The agent would then book in you J/C if D is not available and it'll be converted to D before departure. Just like how instant KK works basically.

Quote:

If I have to use UA, then I can only request seats from its domestic first class award inventory - if no inventory seats are available, then I can not ask for revenue seats.

That's correct. Unless some sort of agreement has been reached between AC and UA to allow booking of revenue space.

Quote:

What CIC reference numbers should I quote, when I am talking to the AE agents, about such rules - in each of these scenarios - I became confused about which reference number regulation is associated with which of your statements?

This is from CIC*77. Sorry, don't have the page number handy so you just have to ask them to find it. With some many sked change lately, they should be more than familiar about all this.

[This message has been edited by Empress (edited 05-17-2003).]

I'm a agent w/United, and everyday since AC announced their sked reduction I have been looking in United's protection profile to see what we at United are supposed to do if approached by a AC customer. In the past, if a carrier is pulling out a of market, that carrier will approach a certain carrier, i.e UA, and ask for protection space. The profile in the computer will then tell the agent what to book if a customer has not already been rebooked by the issuing carrier. The protection agreement also insures that the ticketing accepting airline will get paid. I.E, all tickets issued by a certain date for travel by a certain date can be accepted. Now for award tickets, I have seen, and not saying it will happen again, that we are to book the lowest booking code if the customer has not already been booked/protected by their original carrier.

Thanks Empress and Agent for clarifications on how to work through this mess. We can understand the need for route reductions/realignments but would hope that they have a seamless system in place to facilitate the changes. I can understand UA not wanting to have someone fill seats without their agreement/payment cleared though.

I would be surprised that rebooking only redemption class would be the only alternative if no reward seats were available. I am glad to see the UA seems to have an "open mind" on this.