Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Air Canada | Aeroplan
Reload this Page >

AC860 from St. John's is beating Halifax load factor

AC860 from St. John's is beating Halifax load factor

Old Feb 26, 18, 6:56 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: St. John's (YYT)
Programs: AC P25K, Priority Pass, AMEX MR, UA Mileage Plus
Posts: 281
AC860 from St. John's is beating Halifax load factor

I have heard from somebody I know at the airport that the LHR flight from St. John's has been significantly beating the load factors on the Halifax direct flight. Just looking at the Air Canada site it is evident that this flight is considerably busier on days it flies from YYT-LHR in comparison to YHZ-LHR. Tonight(February 26th) economy is nearly full, and the business class cabin is totally full. Air Canada should seriously look at just routing this flight from YYT! Clearly the market here is much stronger for it.
codfather is offline  
Old Feb 26, 18, 7:09 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: YYJ
Programs: AC E50K (*G), NEXUS
Posts: 506
Welcome to FT Will!
Higher loads on this flight at this time of year are probably due to O&G business traffic out of YYT that YHZ lacks. This flight however does go YHZ-YYT-LHR so some of the contributing traffic would have originated in YHZ.
marke190 is offline  
Old Feb 26, 18, 7:22 pm
  #3  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: St. John's (YYT)
Programs: AC P25K, Priority Pass, AMEX MR, UA Mileage Plus
Posts: 281
Hey! @marke190 we have actually been beating them on loads for passengers flying out of YYT exclusively. This does not include the people connecting from Halifax, that are merely using YYT as a stopover.
codfather is offline  
Old Feb 26, 18, 7:55 pm
  #4  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Programs: AC*A
Posts: 4,831
Originally Posted by Will_YYT View Post
I have heard from somebody I know at the airport that the LHR flight from St. John's has been significantly beating the load factors on the Halifax direct flight. Just looking at the Air Canada site it is evident that this flight is considerably busier on days it flies from YYT-LHR in comparison to YHZ-LHR. Tonight(February 26th) economy is nearly full, and the business class cabin is totally full. Air Canada should seriously look at just routing this flight from YYT! Clearly the market here is much stronger for it.
Comparing load factors between a flight operated with an A319 and a flight operated by a B767 is not a good way to determine how strong the market is.
ChrisA330 is offline  
Old Feb 26, 18, 7:58 pm
  #5  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: St. John's (YYT)
Programs: AC P25K, Priority Pass, AMEX MR, UA Mileage Plus
Posts: 281
Originally Posted by ChrisA330 View Post


Comparing load factors between a flight operated with an A319 and a flight operated by a B767 is not a good way to determine how strong the market is.
I am not comparing load factors between an A319 and a B767, that would make zero sense. Maybe you were not aware, but for the winter the flight is being operated twice weekly from YYT to LHR as AC860(which is typically the Halifax flight), and twice weekly from YHZ to LHR as AC860 like normal. Both flights are operated on a B767. This change is only for the winter season, AC822 will return to the usual daily flight on an A319 in the summer season.
codfather is offline  
Old Feb 26, 18, 8:03 pm
  #6  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Programs: AC*A
Posts: 4,831
Originally Posted by Will_YYT View Post
I am not comparing load factors between an A319 and a B767, that would make zero sense. Maybe you were not aware, but for the winter the flight is being operated twice weekly from YYT to LHR as AC860(which is typically the Halifax flight), and twice weekly from YHZ to LHR as AC860 like normal. Both flights are operated on a B767. This change is only for the winter season, AC822 will return to the usual daily flight on an A319 in the summer season.

Thanks for the correction. I forgot about the winter adjustment.

Even then, itís still hard to tell over pax volume from either city as some pax on the YYT-LHR flight could have originated in YHZ.
ChrisA330 is offline  
Old Feb 26, 18, 8:12 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Elite/Ambassador. NEXUS, National
Posts: 2,579
I know of at least one PAX (not me) who flew the CX to get (eventually, and super non-direct, I might add) to Ireland. One body isn't much. But obviously, it happens. A quick stop in YYT is still superior to routing through YYZ, as someone in YHZ would otherwise do.

I don't know enough about O&G to know if (or why) their loads would go up in winter. But sure, why not. Or maybe frozen Newfs vacay in the UK or Europe. There is a demand, AC updates the sched and equipment to meet it. Amazing! (?)

WS "scissoring" flights through YYT to Europe has been a thing for a long time, year round, I believe.
RangerNS is offline  
Old Feb 26, 18, 8:16 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: YYJ
Programs: AC E50K (*G), NEXUS
Posts: 506
Originally Posted by Will_YYT View Post
I am not comparing load factors between an A319 and a B767, that would make zero sense. Maybe you were not aware, but for the winter the flight is being operated twice weekly from YYT to LHR as AC860(which is typically the Halifax flight), and twice weekly from YHZ to LHR as AC860 like normal. Both flights are operated on a B767. This change is only for the winter season, AC822 will return to the usual daily flight on an A319 in the summer season.
This flight is going 7M8 in the summer...Gasp! Certainly wouldn't want to be on the 6 hour westbound!
marke190 is offline  
Old Feb 26, 18, 8:50 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: YYT
Programs: AC P25
Posts: 242
Originally Posted by RangerNS View Post
I know of at least one PAX (not me) who flew the CX to get (eventually, and super non-direct, I might add) to Ireland. One body isn't much. But obviously, it happens. A quick stop in YYT is still superior to routing through YYZ, as someone in YHZ would otherwise do.

I don't know enough about O&G to know if (or why) their loads would go up in winter. But sure, why not. Or maybe frozen Newfs vacay in the UK or Europe. There is a demand, AC updates the sched and equipment to meet it. Amazing! (?)

WS "scissoring" flights through YYT to Europe has been a thing for a long time, year round, I believe.
If I was in Halifax I'm not sure a stop in St John's would be desirable to possibly saving a couple hours for everyone. I'd think about irrops and the lack of options and generally worse weather at YYT vs YUL or YYZ. Or just choose the other days of the week with no stop.

Just MHO but over the last decade it seems that St. John's can support somewhat more then the A319 size in summer and maybe half that in winter. But the economy here now isn't exactly hot so I wouldn't count on it. WS just cancelled Gatwick after one season. Many have come and gone. AC comes and goes as needed to drive others away.
yytleisure is offline  
Old Feb 26, 18, 8:56 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Elite/Ambassador. NEXUS, National
Posts: 2,579
It would be in the range of no less than 5 hours longer to back track to YUL or YYZ vs a direct. 6 or 7 longer if you are concerned about weather and want to make that "central" Canadian CX.

A stopover in YYT couldn't be 2 hours on the ground. And your inbound A/C is for sure already there, because you are on it. Obviously, other things could go wrong.

I'd always want to fly the right direction, even doing a touch and go on the rock.
codfather likes this.
RangerNS is offline  
Old Feb 26, 18, 9:28 pm
  #11  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: YYJ
Programs: AC E50K (*G), NEXUS
Posts: 506
[QUOTE=yytleisure;29463250]If I was in Halifax I'm not sure a stop in St John's would be desirable to possibly saving a couple hours for everyone. I'd think about irrops and the lack of options and generally worse weather at YYT vs YUL or YYZ. Or just choose the other days of the week with no stop.

The customs and security facilities at YYT are also very limited, hence a partial B763 load of pax in addition to other departures often makes for long security line ups. YYT is not a great airport for connections, perhaps this will change after the extension is finished.
marke190 is offline  
Old Feb 26, 18, 9:47 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: YYT
Programs: AC P25
Posts: 242
Originally Posted by RangerNS View Post
It would be in the range of no less than 5 hours longer to back track to YUL or YYZ vs a direct. 6 or 7 longer if you are concerned about weather and want to make that "central" Canadian CX.

A stopover in YYT couldn't be 2 hours on the ground. And your inbound A/C is for sure already there, because you are on it. Obviously, other things could go wrong.

I'd always want to fly the right direction, even doing a touch and go on the rock.
I don't disagree that some people will share your opinion. I see non-stop 6 hrs, direct 8 hrs and then multiple options at 10-11hours through YYZ or YUL. St John's sees that 767 twice a week which isn't great for irrops which I admit is less likely to cause trouble since it is continuing equipment but still something to consider. Some also prefer a longer red eye for sleeping. As mentioned customs on the return is an issue. I'm not negating your argument but for some the risks and downsides of YYT wouldn't be worth those couple hours.
yytleisure is offline  
Old Feb 26, 18, 10:08 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Programs: AC E50K (*G), Westjet Gold
Posts: 765
I thought I heard somewhere that YHZ-LHR has a lot of cargo that helps the flight? If so, it might make sense for AC to use one aircraft, fill the cargo hold in YHZ, and fill the cabin in YYT....
nave888 is offline  
Old Feb 27, 18, 4:30 am
  #14  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: YYT
Programs: AC E35k, HHonors Silver
Posts: 692
Originally Posted by Will_YYT View Post
I have heard from somebody I know at the airport that the LHR flight from St. John's has been significantly beating the load factors on the Halifax direct flight. Just looking at the Air Canada site it is evident that this flight is considerably busier on days it flies from YYT-LHR in comparison to YHZ-LHR. Tonight(February 26th) economy is nearly full, and the business class cabin is totally full. Air Canada should seriously look at just routing this flight from YYT! Clearly the market here is much stronger for it.
I've flown 860/1 YYT-LHR twice this year and both flights were oversold in economy resulting in this lowly E35 getting op-up'd. I'd argue that the load factor is perhaps more a function of pax choosing to take that direct flight on the two times a week it operates rather than any particularly stronger demand at this time of year. My travel schedules have required me to route the other two legs of my two trips via YYZ which is a real PITA, particularly when your YYZ-YYT cnx gets delayed 6 hrs! J on both those direct flights was not full.

I'm a frequent traveler - 8 times a year or more - on YYT-LON and favoured the WJ flight last year as it was cheaper and had as good service. But I've flown both flights throughout the year and aside from the peak tourist months of summer they are rarely full IME. I was not altogether surprised when WJ cancelled their seasonal direct flight to LGW then. The St John's Airport Authority very much was though as right up until the end of last year WJ gave no indication that this might happen. So we're *stuck* with AC which means higher prices. AC will bring their daily flight back in May & use a 738 in lieu of the 319 they've used in the past. I actually prefer the 319 to the B763 as, in a less than full flight, it's generally easy to get a row of seats to yourself in preferred which gives a faux lie flat experience at a fraction of the cost. We'll see what the 738 brings.

WJ will bring their YYT-DUB seasonal flight back for the summer. The SJAA is actively looking to attract other transatlantic carriers but whether they will be successful who knows? Although the provincial economy is in a downturn, I think overall pax numbers were either flat or slightly up last time they were reported.
AtlanticXpat is offline  
Old Feb 27, 18, 7:39 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Elite/Ambassador. NEXUS, National
Posts: 2,579
Ah, yes, the oft-forgotten lobster factor.
RangerNS is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread