dulciusexasperis

I note no one commented on your comment willflyforfood. I suspect they missed your point. I too would like to see how Air Canada could convert an A320 or A321 into a Boeing 737 Max.

Maybe they plan on hiring David Copperfield.

dinotoon

Arcanum

Symmetre

Other way around kids, mainline will be folded into rouge .... or, in plain English, replaced with it altogether on ALL domestic and transcon routes.

And that "premium long haul" service? How are you enjoying the 777HD? That's the future boys and girls, the only difference between AC's "premium long haul" and domestic rouge will be the colour of paint on the outside of the plane.

Talk about a safe bet! AC's rouge planes have cost the same as mainline on every single route they've been introduced to so far, why would this further enhancement be any different?

Remember, it's ALL about Calin's bonus. AC couldn't give a flying f*ck about any of you folks.

My one regret? Looks like I'll continue to see even more AC luggage tags on my Westjet flights. Damn.

jasdou

I would rather fly in a Jazz Q400 Y seat with a higher frequency than a Rouge (or ML!) J seat with lower frequency for any flight less than two hours.

Rouge taking over the YQB-YYZ route means that I will now have a least one more night one the road for just about every trip I take since they will be axing the earliest and latest daily flight of the schedule.

KenHamer

I think they use the same lavatory doors.

So yeah, it could be done.

canadiancow

Aside from the IFE, what is different on rouge?

I did

KenHamer

Is that a problem with journalism, or the language skills of AC execs?

AC is good at making aircraft vanish on their own.

Where's C-FTJP?

Arcanum

I think you're close but not quite right. I see Rouge eventually taking over all narrowbody flights including the "low-end" intercontinental routes like DUB operated by the 737. Mainline evolves into an exclusively widebody carrier operating the big intercontinental routes as well as a few premium transcon and positioning flights that need widebody service. Basically, we'll end up with a model like QF in Australia where the international and domestic operations were split into separate divisions back around 2012.

Here why I think the model works:

1. Pilots and cabin crews will like it - Mainline crews all move up to widebodies, which I believe pay better. Rouge crews get more route options and an expanded employee pool (= more seniority for current staff). Make it a gradual transition so mainline crews upgauge with international capacity growth or are reduced through attrition without the need for layoffs. All new hires go to expand Rouge until the transition is complete and the mainline employee pool is "right-sized".

2. Fleet segregation - Mainline operates the 777, 787, and A330. Rouge operates the 767, 737, A32X, and CSeries.

3. AC Express savings - Cheaper domestic operations with Rouge reduce the cost advantage of the regional carriers. That means AC gets to put the screws to Chorus, Sky Regional, etc. when their contracts come up for renewal.

4. Product commonality - Flying on mainline? You get lie-flat seats in J and seat-back IFE. Flying on Rouge? You get recliners and streaming IFE (they'll eventually pull it off the 737s to save money).

5. Premium cabin reductions - Many of the current 2-cabin A32Xs will be replaced by 1-cabin 737s, probably with "Euro-business" (blocked middle seats) up front. I predict AC's new FFP will offer free elite upgrades to these seats to lure people in from AP, but to keep costs down the hot meals in Premium Rouge will be replaced by free selections from the BOB cart a la WS Plus.

ridefar

I am with you on all points except the last. They are currently standardizing on 4 row J cabins -- my prediction is this is the standard to differentiate from WS go forward. Without it, they don't have enough differentiation to retain a strangle hold on the business travel market. And I do think they can sell 25-50% of their J cabin as actual revenue; half of that for pax transiting to an international flight, half for people on OPM who actually pay for it/afford it. My other prediction is that the number of preferred seats in Y will be significantly reduced to compensate (reduced from the initially much larger pool we are saying on the 737 Max to 2 -3 rows).

pitz

Yeah I don't see the all-Y configurations going anywhere but to augment capacity on the leisure-heavy transcons (YVR/YYC/YEG-YYZ) where slipping in a few all-Y flights means, at worse, an extra hour or two in the lounge for those who absolutely must travel in J.

The J customer base is not really the business traveler these days, its the people of size, the clausterphobic, the hockey players, politicians and public servants, etc., who really don't have any other choice and for which sitting in Y is not an option whatsoever no matter the cost.

Adam Smith

Unlikely. They tried rouge with fake Euro-J and it didn't work. If Euro-J didn't work even on their most leisure-heavy routes, why would it suffice elsewhere? Remember, right now it's WS who's moving towards AC when it comes to premium product. Years ago, Plus was just a seat at the front with more leg room. Then the food, the blocked middle seat, later priority security, etc.

Meals, not sure. I don't really care though, the snack box on WS Plus is better than any hot meal AC has ever served me in North America.

Arcanum

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I think bigger routes serving hubs and non-widebody transcons will retain J cabins, but smaller routes will go to a single-cabin config with "Euro-business". So the international connecting passenger on YWG-YYZ or business traveller on YVR-YUL will get proper J, but the person flying YWG-YEG will not. This is similar in a way to the LH model where all flights not going to/from MUC or FRA are operated by their low-cost Germanwings subsidiary.

pitz

In the next few years you may very well have a better macro environment in less bubbly, less highly indebted 'secondary' cities like YWG and YEG, than you do in YYZ and YVR due to a real estate price collapse. It might very well be a mistake to assume that there's less wealth or demand for J between YWG and YEG, than there is between YYZ and YVR. Additionally, operating all-Y in parallel with the widebody ops on the main leisure-heavy transcons will eliminate the on-going problem of "J" being an unpredictably different product depending on aircraft that is to the constant chagrin of FT'ers.

KenHamer

As long as Air Canada perceives that they can make more money on rouge flights the rouging of mainline flights will continue.

Until rouge is mainline.