CX pilot scams $36k from AC
Jan 4, 2018, 9:42 pm
#31
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chilling with penguins
Posts: 13,043
As someone who has a job that more or less is conditional on the ability to get a security clearance, he really should have known better than to engage in such activities.
Jan 4, 2018, 9:44 pm
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chilling with penguins
Posts: 13,043
Well they had to put some kind of value to it. I'm surprised they didn't include their legal fees though.
Jan 4, 2018, 10:58 pm
#34
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: Ice Cream Club, AC SE MM, Bonvoy Life Plat
Posts: 2,803
Bear in mind the crown pursued 393(3), not 380(1), which says to me the involvement of AC actually confounded the case and likely worked in the defendant's favour. I agree with [14] ... In swearing a new Information charging the Accused with an offence under Section 393(3) and not proceeding on the charge under Section 380(1)(a), the Crown was not simply electing to proceed summarily. ... [15] ...This offence under Section 393(3) is not one where the Crown could have proceeded by indictment. ...
Absolute or conditional discharge would have been light.
He was summarily convicted. I assume he is now stuck in Canada (obviously an impairment to his earning potential with KA) to complete community service. What other sentence would serve what purpose to society, future deterrence, the community, to the victims, or even to the defendant's rehabilitation or avoidance of recidivism in this case? And, who is paying the tax to do this? =P
As to the effect this may have on his employability overseas (where RAIC is not relevant), I cannot comment. But supposing the same standards for RAIC are applicable, I do not see how anything in this case increases his threat to transportation security. If it were 393(1) or 393(2) (failing to gatekeep admission to transport) I could see it, both of which would be acts threatening transportation security, and justly, are indictable offenses.
EDIT: Never mind the above... I relied on silly media and assumed he was conditionally sentenced. Just read to the bottom of the ruling, and it is clear he will not have a permanent conviction given conditions. A bit on the light side, but still not harming anyone.
This was possible? I've never had occasion to test this, hence personally unaware... jokes about AC IT aside, this seems a dangerous loophole as I'd imagine there would be persons on manifest not actually onboard?
I wonder if he pilots for KA by just timestamping at the jetbridge and turning back. =)
AC wouldn't have legal fees in criminal cases afaik. Tax payers footed the entire bill. I paid a portion of those costs. =P
Absolute or conditional discharge would have been light.
He was summarily convicted. I assume he is now stuck in Canada (obviously an impairment to his earning potential with KA) to complete community service. What other sentence would serve what purpose to society, future deterrence, the community, to the victims, or even to the defendant's rehabilitation or avoidance of recidivism in this case? And, who is paying the tax to do this? =P
As to the effect this may have on his employability overseas (where RAIC is not relevant), I cannot comment. But supposing the same standards for RAIC are applicable, I do not see how anything in this case increases his threat to transportation security. If it were 393(1) or 393(2) (failing to gatekeep admission to transport) I could see it, both of which would be acts threatening transportation security, and justly, are indictable offenses.
EDIT: Never mind the above... I relied on silly media and assumed he was conditionally sentenced. Just read to the bottom of the ruling, and it is clear he will not have a permanent conviction given conditions. A bit on the light side, but still not harming anyone.
I wonder if he pilots for KA by just timestamping at the jetbridge and turning back. =)
AC wouldn't have legal fees in criminal cases afaik. Tax payers footed the entire bill. I paid a portion of those costs. =P
Last edited by DrunkCargo; Jan 4, 2018 at 11:28 pm
Jan 4, 2018, 11:11 pm
#35
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: YXE
Posts: 3,050
Still remember the few months when he basically lived on AC planes, in AC lounges, or occasionally at his job flying older 747s. Lots of fun.
https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harb...ir-canada.html
Claims that he used a promo code that was freely passed to him. And that his only "lapse in judgement" was basically believing that the price was too good to be true.
You'd think that AC's IT system would be robust enough to prevent someone from using a code to which they had no entitlement. That'd just be so simple, instead of placing the onus on the passenger to understand the terms and conditions of a code that was given to him/her through whatever sources. Really unfortunate that Her Majesty's resources were allowed to be utilized to make up for AC's failings when it came to IT and revenue security. What next, AC bringing passengers up on criminal fraud charges if they do a hidden city booking or drop a final segment from their ticket? There clearly was a very strong anti-mtacchi animus here at AC, perhaps related to his previous use of the unlimited pass.
Another post goes on to call him a scammer for making full use of the flight passes "back then". Really unfortunate. Again, the onus was on AC to set the terms and conditions of its offer in such a way to exclude such use (which they eventually did), not the customer who was only taking advantage of the contract offered to him by AC management.
https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harb...ir-canada.html
Claims that he used a promo code that was freely passed to him. And that his only "lapse in judgement" was basically believing that the price was too good to be true.
You'd think that AC's IT system would be robust enough to prevent someone from using a code to which they had no entitlement. That'd just be so simple, instead of placing the onus on the passenger to understand the terms and conditions of a code that was given to him/her through whatever sources. Really unfortunate that Her Majesty's resources were allowed to be utilized to make up for AC's failings when it came to IT and revenue security. What next, AC bringing passengers up on criminal fraud charges if they do a hidden city booking or drop a final segment from their ticket? There clearly was a very strong anti-mtacchi animus here at AC, perhaps related to his previous use of the unlimited pass.
Another post goes on to call him a scammer for making full use of the flight passes "back then". Really unfortunate. Again, the onus was on AC to set the terms and conditions of its offer in such a way to exclude such use (which they eventually did), not the customer who was only taking advantage of the contract offered to him by AC management.
Last edited by pitz; Jan 4, 2018 at 11:17 pm
Jan 5, 2018, 4:56 am
#37
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
Programs: DL, AC, Bonvoy, Accor, Hilton
Posts: 2,918
These types of events usually include a review by the friendly folks over at the tax collection department. I don't think his troubles are over.
People who play games like this usually play some other games as well.
People who play games like this usually play some other games as well.
Jan 5, 2018, 6:00 am
#38
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: OWEmerald; STARGold; BonvoyPlat; IHGPlat/Amb; HiltonGold; A|ClubPat; AirMilesPlat
Posts: 38,186
Marc was one of the folks that couldn't contain himself in terms of sharing how he gamed the system. I flew in the same company as him many years ago and there was always...always...a game afoot, and a seeming compulsion to boast about it.
The Great Cdn Mileage Run so many years ago could be considered by some to be the forefront of a spiralling contest to prove to other forum members how clever you are, with the unintended blowback effect of alerting the airline in the process. Consensus is that the GCMR blog was the catalyst for AC/AP to eliminate the minimum 500 miles per segment feature (500 miles accrued in 15 minutes btw YVR and YCD in this case). Once it was published in the media - and Marc could not resist the attention - it was all over.
Same story for hidden city fares and hat dance boasting but that was primarily others.
The defendant got off very lightly here.
The Great Cdn Mileage Run so many years ago could be considered by some to be the forefront of a spiralling contest to prove to other forum members how clever you are, with the unintended blowback effect of alerting the airline in the process. Consensus is that the GCMR blog was the catalyst for AC/AP to eliminate the minimum 500 miles per segment feature (500 miles accrued in 15 minutes btw YVR and YCD in this case). Once it was published in the media - and Marc could not resist the attention - it was all over.
Same story for hidden city fares and hat dance boasting but that was primarily others.
The defendant got off very lightly here.
Jan 5, 2018, 6:44 am
#40
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
While the behaviour described in the article is at best stupid and almost certainly dishonest, I am not sure it merits a criminal prosecution given the limited resources of our criminal justice system. Particularly if the individual involved has made restitution.
Jan 5, 2018, 8:11 am
#41
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
Having done the Mexican Hat Dance a few times myself such transactions were completely legal and followed fully the terms of the fare at the time. And one of our small group back then is now a VP at AC. In a way, we did the airlines a favour by identifying long forgotten tariff rules that permitted such bargain bookings. The focus of this thread is something quite different.
Clever people often experience difficulties refraining from letting everybody else know how clever they are.
And THAT is the focus of this thread and its protagonist.
*sounds like the VP played you all well, and went on to much grander things. Gamers played and betrayed by their peers - a lesson taught in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.
Jan 5, 2018, 8:17 am
#42
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E75K, Amex Plat, NEXUS, Aman-user (not really a -junkie)
Posts: 1,721
Jan 5, 2018, 8:34 am
#43
Formerly known as newbie elite
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: YUL
Programs: IHG Diamond Ambassador, Accor Platinum, AC50K
Posts: 2,923
Jan 5, 2018, 8:50 am
#44
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Canada
Programs: AC SE 2MM, HH Dd, SPG; IC Pl/A; AA; DL
Posts: 14,321
well not to say that I am clever (or Ken Hamer for that matter) but our mantra is that there is always a way to work the system. Mexican Hat Dances come and go every day. The system works us all the time so I have no problem working the system to my benefit. How I share that is not a cleverness thing but perhaps a random act of kindness (or some may say torture). In the end, no fraud, AC and its partners continue to make money (or even thrive) and the system ultimately has to work for us all. Now back to the regular programming. I am sure mtacchi will make out just fine following this temporary setback--my how the mighty fall!
Jan 5, 2018, 9:26 am
#45
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,255
Yes, the hat dance was completely within the fare rules of the day, and no doubt you did the airlines a favour by identifying arcane loopholes. That favour came at the expense of many more discrete travellers.
Clever people often experience difficulties refraining from letting everybody else know how clever they are.
And THAT is the focus of this thread and its protagonist.
*sounds like the VP played you all well, and went on to much grander things. Gamers played and betrayed by their peers - a lesson taught in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.