Old Dec 31, 17, 6:09 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: jc94
This new annual thread has been carved out of the previous thread in an effort to reduce the number of megathreads on the AC forum. For those interested previous versions are the original 2004 - 2014 thread , 2015 edition, 2016 edition and 2017 edition

The original thread started by accident but quickly became a popular place to come and discuss off topic things such as hockey, new movies, or almost anything that wouldn't fit into existing AC forum threads. More Air Canada or Aeroplan topics such as flight feedback, in-flight services issues or mileage earning/redemption are all topics that should go into existing AC forum threads so others can benefit from this information. Topics about hotels or airlines and/or their loyalty programs should be posted elsewhere on FT as should topics better suited to other forums such as Travel Products for questions about luggage or Travel Photography for discussion about cameras.

While the conversation is more relaxed as it would be in a lounge that doesn't mean however that the FT rules don't apply here as they definitely do so please refrain from controversial topics such as politics or religion, avoid profanities and treat other lounge patrons with the same respect you expect.
Print Wikipost

The Forum Lounge Thread (2018)

Old Feb 22, 18, 7:43 am
  #751  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Elite/Ambassador. NEXUS, National
Posts: 3,971
Originally Posted by SKYEG View Post
A) Work a senor level consulting position in a small private company, make lots of $, but still continue to work crazy hours. Company has high expectations, so lots of pressure/stress.
I'm an IT consultant, and the theory of why the consulting side of things exist is to support products and product support subscriptions. Its a bit different than other forms of "consulting", so my views may be a bit off.

That is a lot of problems and opportunities to work through. "Senior level consulting" would be an amazing way to be exposed to lots of real world problems in whatever field. There are a lot of people "with 15 years experience in X", and this often means "1 year experience in X, 15 times". Your next job hunt would have very different opportunities available with that on your resume.

"Senior" is often appended to consulting titles to get rate bumps and credibility, and you are thrown to the wolves and expected to perform at that level. But as long as it lasts they will pay you at that level.

"Small private company" could mean a company run by reasonable people where you could shine and expand your influence outside of the consulting side of things. It could provide a way to transition over to product design, (at least partially, and less dealing with customers), or sales, or whatever. Or to a startup, if that is your jam. It also might mean a family run business, run by lucky people who are... morons. You'll never get promoted because you aren't family. You'll never get invited to those interesting meetings because you went to a different frat.

"Crazy hours" are relative. Working 10 hours a day, and getting paid for it, but having the weekends, holidays, and vacations totally your own (because the clients don't work weekends, and they are respectful of your vacation time) may be great. OTOH, 40 hour a week entry level work might include OT and shifts and weekends and being called in. 50 or 60 predictable hours a week may be easier and less stressful than 40-60 random hours a week.

If you work until 7:30 every day, you can always schedule a date for 8PM. If you work until the ticket queue is empty, you can't ever schedule a date.
RangerNS is offline  
Old Feb 22, 18, 7:49 am
  #752  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: FOTSG Tangerine Ex E35k (AC)
Posts: 5,610
A lot of good points above. Iíve worked 50h a week and after 2 months was about ready to crack.

Iíve also worked 50h a week for 6 months and been fine. All depends on the stress levels for those hours.

In my experience, most jobs never have completely empty queue (unless you are near the bottom and being spit fed chunks of work). Especially as you go up in a company itís all about picking the key parts or tasks to work in and knowing when to stop.
jc94 is offline  
Old Feb 22, 18, 8:24 am
  #753  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Elite/Ambassador. NEXUS, National
Posts: 3,971
I did not literally mean an empty queue. My point is that its different. An in-house staff may be expected to work late to get things done. (and so might a consultant). But if the consulting project is more long term, experimental, lab based, when it is time to go home, it is time to go home.
RangerNS is offline  
Old Feb 22, 18, 9:24 am
  #754  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,494
Originally Posted by SKYEG View Post
So stressed right now
Sorry, you're stressed, well, I'd consider A, and unless it's perfect I would quit and travel for 6 months.
​​​​​​
or

Take B, have an easy 2-3 year job, then look to get back into high gear.


That being said my work was crazy stupid busy the last 12 months and then come January I started working from home and doing "normal" hours without needing to switch jobs. Amazing for me as I just had a second baby. Timing was basically perfect.
quantumofforce is offline  
Old Feb 22, 18, 9:42 am
  #755  
Suspended
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: AC
Posts: 2,167
Originally Posted by SKYEG View Post
WWYD? Would really appreciate some insight for people that are more experienced than me in the age of life...

You're 27, burnt out from current job and company, switching careers and relocating to a MUCH smaller city. Have two choices(zero travel for both, which is what I want right now):

A) Work a senor level consulting position in a small private company, make lots of $, but still continue to work crazy hours. Company has high expectations, so lots of pressure/stress.

B) Work an entry level role, take a step back and actually work a 9-5 in an office with zero stress, zero pressure and advancement opportunities later on for one of the largest companies in the world, with said firm. Make a considerable amount less $ and have to make a lifestyle change but actually have time to relax and have a life, no evenings, no weekends.

Starting to question why I am moving to YWG when job A) is what I'm leaving and job A) is what I'm going to. Now with Job B) on the table as well, I have to make a decision by Monday. I move this weekend. Getting so anxious that I have no clue what I want and what I'm doing... Money and success is important but I don't even know if I like what I do anymore. Job A and B are the same industry too. So stressed right now
I cannot emphasize how strongly I would encourage you to take Job #A . It is much more than just the money, but experience at a senior leader level while you are relatively young will pay significant dividends later on in your career. Don't look at it as just forgone money for the next few years by going to Job #B , but take a look at the salary differential for the next 30 years of your working life. Perhaps balance Job A with a bit of self funded travel to take off the stress, but I would encourage you to put your pedal to the metal.
Plumber and quantumofforce like this.
longtimeflyin is offline  
Old Feb 22, 18, 10:04 am
  #756  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AC Altitude E75K (*G), NEXUS
Posts: 4,365
I concur with Team A: "lean in". Every job can be hard. An easy job can be hard because it is unfulfilling. If you have the intellect to have the offer A, the appeal of "a life" (i.e., ample down time) may start to become tedious. It can be very hard getting back "inside". Ask anyone that has taken mat leave. Even male classmates of mine told me they'd been put on the mommy track even without taking leave, just by not seeming ambitious.
(My own experience is of making ambitious leaps for less and less pay and more and more hours several times through my life, so perhaps I'm doing it wrong! )
If the small company turns out to go out of business or be an uncoordinated startup that doesn't take your advice, you've had X months or years of higher level experience on your resume when you look at your options at that time. This isn't a life sentence. It's just what you do next.
longtimeflyin likes this.
flyquiet is offline  
Old Feb 22, 18, 11:14 am
  #757  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: YYC
Posts: 4,035
Originally Posted by longtimeflyin View Post
I cannot emphasize how strongly I would encourage you to take Job #A . It is much more than just the money, but experience at a senior leader level while you are relatively young will pay significant dividends later on in your career. Don't look at it as just forgone money for the next few years by going to Job #B , but take a look at the salary differential for the next 30 years of your working life. Perhaps balance Job A with a bit of self funded travel to take off the stress, but I would encourage you to put your pedal to the metal.
+1 I was a public company CFO at age 26, and it made an enormous difference on my career progression. People care a lot less about your age when you've got high ranking roles on your resume, and it allows you to be much more upfront on your requirements (I'd note that being male and white also greatly contribute to this). As an example, despite being a CA with under 10 years experience, when I talk with firms now, it's assumed that partnership is a requirement to entry, not something we'll talk about in a few years.
longtimeflyin likes this.
rehoult is offline  
Old Feb 22, 18, 2:06 pm
  #758  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: TK *G
Posts: 2,413
Originally Posted by rehoult View Post
+1 I was a public company CFO at age 26, and it made an enormous difference on my career progression. People care a lot less about your age when you've got high ranking roles on your resume, and it allows you to be much more upfront on your requirements (I'd note that being male and white also greatly contribute to this). As an example, despite being a CA with under 10 years experience, when I talk with firms now, it's assumed that partnership is a requirement to entry, not something we'll talk about in a few years.
Wow that's very impressive. If you don't mind could you elaborate a bit more about how you made to CFO at such an early age? Thanks in advance.
songsc is offline  
Old Feb 22, 18, 2:45 pm
  #759  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson
Posts: 34,883
Originally Posted by songsc View Post


Wow that's very impressive. If you don't mind could you elaborate a bit more about how you made to CFO at such an early age? Thanks in advance.
I have many friends who went into C-suite in their 20s.
This is not some rare occurrence anymore.
yyznomad is offline  
Old Feb 22, 18, 3:01 pm
  #760  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: TK *G
Posts: 2,413
Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
I have many friends who went into C-suite in their 20s.
This is not some rare occurrence anymore.
Are they in public companies? Some of my friends created their own start ups right after graduation and they instantly became CEOs or CTOs. And of course they manage very limited resources, some of them don't even manage people. I would assume CFO in a public company to be something totally different.

And of course I have seen some very young C levels in companies where all C levels share the same last name
pewpew likes this.
songsc is offline  
Old Feb 22, 18, 3:17 pm
  #761  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson
Posts: 34,883
Originally Posted by songsc View Post


Are they in public companies? Some of my friends created their own start ups right after graduation and they instantly became CEOs or CTOs. And of course they manage very limited resources, some of them don't even manage people. I would assume CFO in a public company to be something totally different.

And of course I have seen some very young C levels in companies where all C levels share the same last name
Some are startups. Some are public.

And yes, it's all in the name, for the most part, and unfortunately.

I know many people (not my friends) who either get promoted to upper echelons but are at best, "figureheads". I see this at my clients often. Just because you are at X (or C) level does not make one competent.
yyznomad is offline  
Old Feb 22, 18, 3:25 pm
  #762  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: TK *G
Posts: 2,413
Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
Some are startups. Some are public.

And yes, it's all in the name, for the most part, and unfortunately.

I know many people (not my friends) who either get promoted to upper echelons but are at best, "figureheads". I see this at my clients often. Just because you are at X (or C) level does not make one competent.
Some companies like to give people big titles, and they are very creative too. I have seen AVP, VP, SVP existing at the same time for a company with less than 100 people, as well as titles like chief recruiting officer, chief information security officer, etc.

It's more about what resources you managed and what you achieved with those resources. Even years of experience is not a good indication sometime.
songsc is offline  
Old Feb 22, 18, 3:33 pm
  #763  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: YHZ
Programs: AC SE100K, AC .90MM, Marriott Gold, Hertz something or other, Sandals Sapphire, etc
Posts: 1,099
Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
Some are startups. Some are public.

And yes, it's all in the name, for the most part, and unfortunately.

I know many people (not my friends) who either get promoted to upper echelons but are at best, "figureheads". I see this at my clients often. Just because you are at X (or C) level does not make one competent.
That's the "Peter Principle". Getting promoted to the level of your incompetence.

Some (many??) would say I am living proof of that principle....

FYI, I was a CFO of a public company in my late 30's/early 40's. Vowed I would never again put myself through that agony!!
Yhztraveller is offline  
Old Feb 22, 18, 3:38 pm
  #764  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson
Posts: 34,883
Originally Posted by Yhztraveller View Post
That's the "Peter Principle". Getting promoted to the level of your incompetence.

Some (many??) would say I am living proof of that principle....

FYI, I was a CFO of a public company in my late 30's/early 40's. Vowed I would never again put myself through that agony!!
I forgot to mention that in some cases the C-suite terms doled out at some companies are used incorrectly.

But yes, the Peter Principle.

The nice thing with today's "parity" in the workforce, it gives me continued optimism
yyznomad is offline  
Old Feb 22, 18, 5:16 pm
  #765  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: YYC
Posts: 4,035
Originally Posted by songsc View Post
Wow that's very impressive. If you don't mind could you elaborate a bit more about how you made to CFO at such an early age? Thanks in advance.
The first client I ever audited as a CA student remembered me 3.5 years later when he needed a new CFO and called me up. Spent a great 5 years with them, including 2 IFRS conversions and managing $500M+ in litigation, and was recruited to refinance my current company, and was then promoted to CEO when I did that well. Now in the process of selling my current company and will likely end up back in public practice.

The advice I give the auditors every year (who always ask the same question you did) is: Focus on your clients and you'll find a lot of open doors, but if you focus on keeping your boss happy you'll only find one. That I kept my clients happy was skill; that it paid off so early was luck.
pewpew, jc94, Jumper Jack and 2 others like this.
rehoult is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread