Swiss first class bookable!
Dec 9, 2017, 5:51 pm
#331
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM
Posts: 23,300
Was booked on a Monday DUB-ZRH, Overnight layover in ZRH; then Tuesday ZRH-LAX-SFO
No direct contact from Aeroplan or LX, but this morning received an updated e-ticket, for a Tuesday flight DUB-YYZ (AC A330J) YYZ-SFO (AC A320J). Both Segments are in I class, and were not available- so they must have opened them.
I'm really unhappy for a few reasons:
1) If i was going straight back to the US, I would want to leave Dublin on Monday, not Tuesday
2) I would much rather have taken a longer layover in YYZ and flew the 767 to SFO so I can get a lie flat the whole way vs the A320
3) They did not refund me any miles for the trip
4) The A330 product looks weak. I wish it was the 77W or 787, but I'm not sure there's anything that can be done there (unless I try to go to LHR instead)
Should I call Aeroplan and try and have them adjust this to a more acceptable itinerary? I'm still holding out a very small degree of hope for a more acceptable resolution (a First Class resolution) but I feel like that's increasingly unlikely. More importantly, I don't want to lose my ability to reverse transfer to AMEX at a later date in case I find a better option via other means. Thoughts on next steps? I did file a DOT complaint as well FWIW.
No direct contact from Aeroplan or LX, but this morning received an updated e-ticket, for a Tuesday flight DUB-YYZ (AC A330J) YYZ-SFO (AC A320J). Both Segments are in I class, and were not available- so they must have opened them.
I'm really unhappy for a few reasons:
1) If i was going straight back to the US, I would want to leave Dublin on Monday, not Tuesday
2) I would much rather have taken a longer layover in YYZ and flew the 767 to SFO so I can get a lie flat the whole way vs the A320
3) They did not refund me any miles for the trip
4) The A330 product looks weak. I wish it was the 77W or 787, but I'm not sure there's anything that can be done there (unless I try to go to LHR instead)
Should I call Aeroplan and try and have them adjust this to a more acceptable itinerary? I'm still holding out a very small degree of hope for a more acceptable resolution (a First Class resolution) but I feel like that's increasingly unlikely. More importantly, I don't want to lose my ability to reverse transfer to AMEX at a later date in case I find a better option via other means. Thoughts on next steps? I did file a DOT complaint as well FWIW.
You can absolutely call and demand a different routing that is more acceptable to you. They can open up AC space only though, unless something else is available.
Dec 9, 2017, 9:13 pm
#332
Join Date: Oct 2013
Programs: LT Marriott Titanium, AC SE
Posts: 188
Totally luck of the draw, but I spoke to 3 different agents (supervisors) who were unwilling to open up AC space.
Some other choice quotes from Aeroplan:
* Air Canada sells Executive First and that's equivalent so First on other airlines so obviously we can't open that up. (How come it maps to J and not F or O?)
* Aeroplan has never honored Swiss mistake fares (oh really? What about the winter and summer releases?)
* You owe Aeroplan $30 for cancelling the flight online (Wait, you want to charge me money to cancel a supposedly unbookable flight?)
As stands, my tickets are in purgatory. Have to wait for award space to open up though I can refund and have points returned to Amex anytime up to departure.
Some other choice quotes from Aeroplan:
* Air Canada sells Executive First and that's equivalent so First on other airlines so obviously we can't open that up. (How come it maps to J and not F or O?)
* Aeroplan has never honored Swiss mistake fares (oh really? What about the winter and summer releases?)
* You owe Aeroplan $30 for cancelling the flight online (Wait, you want to charge me money to cancel a supposedly unbookable flight?)
As stands, my tickets are in purgatory. Have to wait for award space to open up though I can refund and have points returned to Amex anytime up to departure.
Dec 9, 2017, 9:14 pm
#333
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Seat 1A
Programs: Non-status paid F/J (best value for $$$)
Posts: 4,124
Has anyone here actually tried to insist on Aeroplan booking you into real "F" or "A" class on LX or LH?
I remember some time ago, some people were able to get booked into "F" class on SQ for service recovery due to some kind of error.
I remember some time ago, some people were able to get booked into "F" class on SQ for service recovery due to some kind of error.
Dec 9, 2017, 9:24 pm
#334
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: AC 100K SE (*G), Marriott P, SPG G, Hilton D
Posts: 611
So, I called in today because I've been tired of waiting for a call.
I got re-booked onto the following:
BCN-FRA LH J
FRA-ICN OZ F
ICN-LAX OZ F
LAX-YVR AC J
On the bright side I get TWO 10+ hour F flights and they are ignoring MPM rules for this re-booking.
I will keep an eye out for LH F availability and switch to that if it opens up.
I got re-booked onto the following:
BCN-FRA LH J
FRA-ICN OZ F
ICN-LAX OZ F
LAX-YVR AC J
On the bright side I get TWO 10+ hour F flights and they are ignoring MPM rules for this re-booking.
I will keep an eye out for LH F availability and switch to that if it opens up.
Dec 9, 2017, 9:26 pm
#335
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,323
But my return dates (5 day range) don't have any I/O space for the TATL segment, which is simply not acceptable. Not that J would be acceptable anyway, but Y certainly is not.
Dec 9, 2017, 9:49 pm
#336
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: SPG Plat, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, United Premier Silver
Posts: 205
Totally luck of the draw, but I spoke to 3 different agents (supervisors) who were unwilling to open up AC space.
Some other choice quotes from Aeroplan:
* Air Canada sells Executive First and that's equivalent so First on other airlines so obviously we can't open that up. (How come it maps to J and not F or O?)
* Aeroplan has never honored Swiss mistake fares (oh really? What about the winter and summer releases?)
* You owe Aeroplan $30 for cancelling the flight online (Wait, you want to charge me money to cancel a supposedly unbookable flight?)
As stands, my tickets are in purgatory. Have to wait for award space to open up though I can refund and have points returned to Amex anytime up to departure.
Some other choice quotes from Aeroplan:
* Air Canada sells Executive First and that's equivalent so First on other airlines so obviously we can't open that up. (How come it maps to J and not F or O?)
* Aeroplan has never honored Swiss mistake fares (oh really? What about the winter and summer releases?)
* You owe Aeroplan $30 for cancelling the flight online (Wait, you want to charge me money to cancel a supposedly unbookable flight?)
As stands, my tickets are in purgatory. Have to wait for award space to open up though I can refund and have points returned to Amex anytime up to departure.
Dec 9, 2017, 9:52 pm
#337
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,454
Alternatively, LH F can be had <2 weeks in advantage.
LX F simply shouldn't have been allowed to be available for Non-M&M-Super Elite members. If a store is left open overnight accidentally, you can't walk in and take everything without the police later coming to look for you.
Dec 9, 2017, 9:58 pm
#338
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,323
They offered to put people in CA F.
Alternatively, LH F can be had <2 weeks in advantage.
LX F simply shouldn't have been allowed to be available for Non-M&M-Super Elite members. If a store is left open overnight accidentally, you can't walk in and take everything without the police later coming to look for you.
Alternatively, LH F can be had <2 weeks in advantage.
LX F simply shouldn't have been allowed to be available for Non-M&M-Super Elite members. If a store is left open overnight accidentally, you can't walk in and take everything without the police later coming to look for you.
It's more like I go into a store, pick up a product, take it to the cashier, they scan the barcode, it comes up at the expected price, I pay, and walk out.
You're talking about theft. I was on the phone with the seller when I paid the price they asked.
Dec 9, 2017, 10:14 pm
#339
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
There are analogies I would accept. That is not one.
It's more like I go into a store, pick up a product, take it to the cashier, they scan the barcode, it comes up at the expected price, I pay, and walk out.
You're talking about theft. I was on the phone with the seller when I paid the price they asked.
It's more like I go into a store, pick up a product, take it to the cashier, they scan the barcode, it comes up at the expected price, I pay, and walk out.
You're talking about theft. I was on the phone with the seller when I paid the price they asked.
Dec 9, 2017, 10:23 pm
#340
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE (*A Gold), Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Hilton Gold, Amex Platinum / AP Reserve, NEXUS, Global Entry
Posts: 5,691
A more appropriate analogy would be walking into a store that you may or may not know is usually open overnight, taking something from the shelf, paying the asking price, and walking out. The party forcefully taking it back — without explanation, communication of any kind or even coordinating a refund — is in the wrong.
Dec 9, 2017, 11:05 pm
#341
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kan@da
Programs: Anything with sweet spots
Posts: 1,790
They offered to put people in CA F.
Alternatively, LH F can be had <2 weeks in advantage.
LX F simply shouldn't have been allowed to be available for Non-M&M-Super Elite members. If a store is left open overnight accidentally, you can't walk in and take everything without the police later coming to look for you.
Alternatively, LH F can be had <2 weeks in advantage.
LX F simply shouldn't have been allowed to be available for Non-M&M-Super Elite members. If a store is left open overnight accidentally, you can't walk in and take everything without the police later coming to look for you.
The Price accuracy policy provides for compensation if the price requested at the cash register is higher than the price indicated in the store. The merchant must:
- give you the good for free if the item costs $10 or less;
- sell you the good at the displayed price minus $10 if the good costs more than $10.
Last edited by MasterGeek; Dec 9, 2017 at 11:10 pm
Dec 10, 2017, 6:32 am
#342
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: AC
Posts: 2,167
There are analogies I would accept. That is not one.
It's more like I go into a store, pick up a product, take it to the cashier, they scan the barcode, it comes up at the expected price, I pay, and walk out.
You're talking about theft. I was on the phone with the seller when I paid the price they asked.
It's more like I go into a store, pick up a product, take it to the cashier, they scan the barcode, it comes up at the expected price, I pay, and walk out.
You're talking about theft. I was on the phone with the seller when I paid the price they asked.
Dec 10, 2017, 8:34 am
#343
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,232
Don't have a dog in this fight and not an active aeroplan patron but have been following this issue. Two thoughts come to mind -
1. Aeroplan seems to be relying on language that their award terms specifically prohibit LX F bookings. Does Aeroplan also have language that says the the terms and conditions of the program can be changed at their discretion without notice ? It appears that LX bookings have been allowed in the past despite the no LX F language so would that have been a precedent setting event where the terms and conditions were changed without notice ? Would love to hear the opinion of any legal professionals on here as I am not a legal professional.
2. I remember seeing stories about a gentleman in Canada who is a tenacious passenger rights advocate and has had great success representing passengers - I think his name was Gabor - has anyone reached out to him ?
1. Aeroplan seems to be relying on language that their award terms specifically prohibit LX F bookings. Does Aeroplan also have language that says the the terms and conditions of the program can be changed at their discretion without notice ? It appears that LX bookings have been allowed in the past despite the no LX F language so would that have been a precedent setting event where the terms and conditions were changed without notice ? Would love to hear the opinion of any legal professionals on here as I am not a legal professional.
2. I remember seeing stories about a gentleman in Canada who is a tenacious passenger rights advocate and has had great success representing passengers - I think his name was Gabor - has anyone reached out to him ?
Dec 10, 2017, 8:57 am
#344
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: AC Lifetime SE100K, 3MM, SPG Lifetime Plat, Hertz PC, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,901
Dec 10, 2017, 9:08 am
#345
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
So after discussing this situation with a friend who practices law....
I will be filing in small claims court, with the focus on the fact that negligence lies with their agent who made the booking.
My original ticket was:
YYZ-YUL AC J
YUL-ZRH LX F
ZRH-CDG LX J
CDG-BKK TG F
My ticket now is:
YYZ-CDG AC J
CDG-BKK TG F
The oneway F award which I paid was 107.5K AP points. The cost of a oneway J award is 77.5K. The difference being 30K points.
The total distance from YYZ-BKK is 9629mi - 307mi for the YYZ-YUL J portion - 297mi for the ZRH-CDG J portion = 9025mi of that 3737mi is for the YUL-ZRH F portion which = 41% of the total distance.
What I will claim is a prorated amount of 12,300 AP points (41% of the 30K class difference) to be credited back to my account or the dollar value of those points ($555.96) based on Aeroplan's own selling rate of .04 cents plus tax per point.
My travel is over New Years and depending on if LH F opens up on the return I will also be claiming my return flights as-well all on one claim.
Currently, I have:
BKK-CDG TG F
CDG-YYZ AC J
My original ticket was:
BKK-BOM AI J
BOM-ZRH LX F
ZRH-ORD LX F
ORD-YYZ AC J
BTW: Aimia has global offices for serving them with legal notice
Toronto
130 King Street West
Toronto, ON M5X 1A9
Minneapolis
100 North Sixth Street, Suite 650C
Minneapolis, MN 55403
Phone: 763.445.3500
Newark
1501 Casho Mill Rd. #14
Newark, DE 19711
https://www.aimia.com/en/contact/global-offices.html
To list a few.
I will be filing in small claims court, with the focus on the fact that negligence lies with their agent who made the booking.
My original ticket was:
YYZ-YUL AC J
YUL-ZRH LX F
ZRH-CDG LX J
CDG-BKK TG F
My ticket now is:
YYZ-CDG AC J
CDG-BKK TG F
The oneway F award which I paid was 107.5K AP points. The cost of a oneway J award is 77.5K. The difference being 30K points.
The total distance from YYZ-BKK is 9629mi - 307mi for the YYZ-YUL J portion - 297mi for the ZRH-CDG J portion = 9025mi of that 3737mi is for the YUL-ZRH F portion which = 41% of the total distance.
What I will claim is a prorated amount of 12,300 AP points (41% of the 30K class difference) to be credited back to my account or the dollar value of those points ($555.96) based on Aeroplan's own selling rate of .04 cents plus tax per point.
My travel is over New Years and depending on if LH F opens up on the return I will also be claiming my return flights as-well all on one claim.
Currently, I have:
BKK-CDG TG F
CDG-YYZ AC J
My original ticket was:
BKK-BOM AI J
BOM-ZRH LX F
ZRH-ORD LX F
ORD-YYZ AC J
BTW: Aimia has global offices for serving them with legal notice
Toronto
130 King Street West
Toronto, ON M5X 1A9
Minneapolis
100 North Sixth Street, Suite 650C
Minneapolis, MN 55403
Phone: 763.445.3500
Newark
1501 Casho Mill Rd. #14
Newark, DE 19711
https://www.aimia.com/en/contact/global-offices.html
To list a few.
Last edited by imverge; Dec 10, 2017 at 9:21 am Reason: added contact info